Thinking about the transition from Sail to Motor - advice sought

[DipperToo]

Shaft drive most definitely and maybe single in an ideal world but so many have twins that it would restrict choice significantly if that were a criteria. Our preference would have been for a single engine but we ended up with twins because that is what our boat of choice has. No regrets ?
.

I have been leaning towards shaft drive - good point about going for smaller twin engines to broaden the choice if needed.
I noticed that some shaft drive engines have a V drive which puts the engine back to front and was done to give more room on the boat. Hopefully access is not compromised too much - but an earlier point taken about the poor access to the port engine on a twin engine Nimbus 320.
Do the V drives introduce any complications or reliability issue other than simply more moving parts to go wrong?
The responses to my initial question have been brilliant and enlightening - thanks again.

 

[Elessar]

V drives are no problem at all.
On a relatively small boat the access to a big single trumps redundancy when it comes to reliability IMO.
Costs nearly halved, fuel consumption much less, And half as much to go wrong!

 

[Bajansailor]

With a vee drive, unless the gearbox is separate, forward of the engine and connected by a cardan shaft, the shaft (and the shaft seal on the stern tube) will be underneath the engine - and you will usually need to have very long arms just to reach under there to do any form of maintenance.

 

[colhel]

We changed from Sail to Power about 4 years ago but really sure what I can add to what has already been said. Our reasons weren't because sailing was getting too difficult, it was more about having greater flexibility with limited time due to both working full-time. Accommodation wise, ours is an aft cabin Nimbus 3003, which although offers separate sleeping accommodation in this configuration in this size, makes getting on and off for berthing and marina use more challenging. Not having level access from the saloon or helm, I can see the advantages of not having an aft cabin, but it suits us.
Obviously recent events have restricted our use but in the 4 years we've had her we've had numerous trips between Solent and Portland, and one trip to Guernsey and Falmouth. A single engine is a concern until you're actually underway, ie, when planning a significant passage, I tend to go through all the "what ifs" with weather, sea state and engine reliability, but once underway I worry a lot less.

 

[Elessar]

We changed from Sail to Power about 4 years ago but really sure what I can add to what has already been said. Our reasons weren't because sailing was getting too difficult, it was more about having greater flexibility with limited time due to both working full-time. Accommodation wise, ours is an aft cabin Nimbus 3003, which although offers separate sleeping accommodation in this configuration in this size, makes getting on and off for berthing and marina use more challenging. Not having level access from the saloon or helm, I can see the advantages of not having an aft cabin, but it suits us.
Obviously recent events have restricted our use but in the 4 years we've had her we've had numerous trips between Solent and Portland, and one trip to Guernsey and Falmouth. A single engine is a concern until you're actually underway, ie, when planning a significant passage, I tend to go through all the "what ifs" with weather, sea state and engine reliability, but once underway I worry a lot less.

I did plenty of 200 mile trips and channel crossings in my single engined boats. I had one breakdown. It was a broken driveshaft so not fixable and I needed a tow.
Did that put me off single engined boats? No.
Especially as my failure was a stern drive that had an installation error.
Well maintained boats are very reliable and faults generally mean they don’t start or happen with some warning.
Twins are not a panacea. Fuel is a foreseeable issue and will likely impact both engines.
Access can be so difficult with twins that maintenance gets skipped or issues don’t get spotted. And some shaft drive boats are exceedingly difficult to handle on one engine to the point of needing a tow anyway.
(of my 3 sealines, S37 was stern drive so easy peasy, 390 (f43) exceedingly difficult, T46 fairly easy)

 

[KREW2]

I believe the 25 had an optional bed conversion for the stern seat. Not a lot of space in them though.
Seaward are helpful.

That is all well and good if you don't mind sleeping under canvas but, as you say it still leaves a stowage problem. There is just enough space for two comfortably, but you have to be tidy.

 

[Greg2]

I did plenty of 200 mile trips and channel crossings in my single engined boats. I had one breakdown. It was a broken driveshaft so not fixable and I needed a tow.
Did that put me off single engined boats? No.
Especially as my failure was a stern drive that had an installation error.
Well maintained boats are very reliable and faults generally mean they don’t start or happen with some warning.
Twins are not a panacea. Fuel is a foreseeable issue and will likely impact both engines.
Access can be so difficult with twins that maintenance gets skipped or issues don’t get spotted. And some shaft drive boats are exceedingly difficult to handle on one engine to the point of needing a tow anyway.
(of my 3 sealines, S37 was stern drive so easy peasy, 390 (f43) exceedingly difficult, T46 fairly easy)

I don‘t disagree and we would have preferred a single for the reasons you cite BUT when looking at one boat it had a single VP D6 and one of my concerns was the greater likelihood of problems with common rail and electickery found on modern diesels. It wasn’t the reason we didn’t buy it but I have to say that my preference would be for engines such as the more agricultural Perkins in our Hardy and I would be a lot happier having one of those as a single than the D6 or similar. As an aside a marine engineer friend observed that looking after our two Perkins would probably be cheaper and easier than looking after a single D6 in the long run.
.

 

[DipperToo]

We changed from Sail to Power about 4 years ago but really sure what I can add to what has already been said. Our reasons weren't because sailing was getting too difficult, it was more about having greater flexibility with limited time due to both working full-time. Accommodation wise, ours is an aft cabin Nimbus 3003, which although offers separate sleeping accommodation in this configuration in this size, makes getting on and off for berthing and marina use more challenging. Not having level access from the saloon or helm, I can see the advantages of not having an aft cabin, but it suits us.
Obviously recent events have restricted our use but in the 4 years we've had her we've had numerous trips between Solent and Portland, and one trip to Guernsey and Falmouth. A single engine is a concern until you're actually underway, ie, when planning a significant passage, I tend to go through all the "what ifs" with weather, sea state and engine reliability, but once underway I worry a lot less.

The Nimbus series are looking the favourite at present. I now need to spend a few wet days browsing all the various models that I have seen on the internet. Unless I am mistake, there are not that many differences between the 320 C(32ft), the 305 C (35 ft), 345C (34 ft)?
Obviously I will try to get a first look at some of these over the winter months to try and see what the real differences are.

 

[SimonD]

The Nimbus series are looking the favourite at present. I now need to spend a few wet days browsing all the various models that I have seen on the internet. Unless I am mistake, there are not that many differences between the 320 C(32ft), the 305 C (35 ft), 345C (34 ft)?
Obviously I will try to get a first look at some of these over the winter months to try and see what the real differences are.

The Nimbus coupe cruisers all have a similar layout in this style. The 345 was replaced by the 350. Both are twin engines and are pretty chunky boats. The 305 replaced the 335 and may be outside your budget. The 335 has a side door and, hence, much better access to the deck. They're single engine, but I believe all have a Volvo Penta D4. These are more modern engines and have electronic controls and engine management systems. You'll find more opinions than you can shake a stick at on this forum about the reliability of these engines. The other big difference of course is price. Only you can decide if the 335 is worth some £90k more than a 320! (I'd certainly be tempted if I could afford one!)

 

[DipperToo]

The Nimbus coupe cruisers all have a similar layout in this style. The 345 was replaced by the 350. Both are twin engines and are pretty chunky boats. The 305 replaced the 335 and may be outside your budget. The 335 has a side door and, hence, much better access to the deck. They're single engine, but I believe all have a Volvo Penta D4. These are more modern engines and have electronic controls and engine management systems. You'll find more opinions than you can shake a stick at on this forum about the reliability of these engines. The other big difference of course is price. Only you can decide if the 335 is worth some £90k more than a 320! (I'd certainly be tempted if I could afford one!)

Thanks for the detail on the models. I wish I could stretch to the 305 but the 335 second hand may 'just' be possible.
One point I noticed is that the 335 while being a single engine has 2 rudders which on the newer 305 revert back to one. Was this because they may be more vulnerable to damage or picking up debris more easily?
Obviously a stern thruster will make closer quarter manoeuvring easier as there will be minimal prop wash across the rudder at slow speed. My Southerly 110 has the prop between 2 rudders so I have a reasonable experience of the lack of propwash. It is the rudder vulnerability I was thinking about.

 

[SimonD]

Umm, interesting. The short answer is I don't know. Best thing to do is call Offshore Powerboats who are the UK Nimbus distributors or contact the Nimbus Owners Club or give Nimbus Sweden a call - they're very helpful.

The 320 (single engine model) has a single rudder supported at the bottom by a substantial bronze fitting bolted to the skeg. This protects the prop from impact damage. I can confirm you're right about slow speed steering - there is hardly any on my 320! There's also virtually no prop walk (don't know why). I use the bow thruster to steer at slow speed. The boat rotates around the mid-point of the boat and it's easy to steer that way. That said, I'd thinking of fitting a stern thruster and you'll see many boats with them.

 

[colhel]

If you scroll down this article there's an explanation of their twin rudder set up.

335 coupe - Nimbus - PDF Catalogs | Documentation | Boating Brochures

 

[Elessar]

Thanks for the detail on the models. I wish I could stretch to the 305 but the 335 second hand may 'just' be possible.
One point I noticed is that the 335 while being a single engine has 2 rudders which on the newer 305 revert back to one. Was this because they may be more vulnerable to damage or picking up debris more easily?
Obviously a stern thruster will make closer quarter manoeuvring easier as there will be minimal prop wash across the rudder at slow speed. My Southerly 110 has the prop between 2 rudders so I have a reasonable experience of the lack of propwash. It is the rudder vulnerability I was thinking about.

Prop wash on a mobo is always far less than on a yacht (single rudder yacht that is) due to the much smaller rudders, but you can give a blast of more power to kick the stern in the rudder direction if needed. But at close quarters you will find you will spend substantially less than 50% of the time in gear or you will be going too fast.
Then there is the fact that when out of gear the rudders hardly work at all at low speed.
Most yachties transitioning to mobo feel out of control and add speed to get the rudder to bite. Way too much speed!
The next problem on a single engine shaft mobo in my experience is that you get loads of prop walk as the prop is much bigger than a yacht. This makes the slow speed turn in one direction effective and in the other direction very difficult. Have said that SimonD says he gets no prop walk which I find surprising but don’t doubt.
All in all though a stern thruster on a single shaft mobo is of great benefit. And a powerful reliable bow thruster is a must.

 

[mainshiptom]

As age takes its toll on the physical effort with sailing, I have been giving some thought to moving to a semi-displacement motor boat.
As I do a fair amount of short handed sailing, one criteria I have been looking for is easy access to the side decks when mooring. So far, the only boats I have seen in the 32-36 foot range with a side door are either the Trawler type of boat or Nimbus with their 36 foot coupe model.
Speed is not an essential part of the equation but seaworthiness (Cat A or B) is a must to do longer channel crossings. Also, second hand is not an issue as some of these boats are eye watering when new! A fly bridge is not a requirement as I would almost prefer something a bit more traditional rather than a modern, fast planing type of craft.
Do any forum members here have experience or knowledge of boats that are worth putting on a short list which importantly have the easy side deck access from the helm position?
Thanks in advance.

I own a Mainhip 350 which has a side door on the Starboard side which is great for my needs, it also has a single diesel and a bow thruster which makes it economical and easy to moor.
It also has a generator . the boat is a semi displacement hull i think but I average 8-10 knots very economically.

I definitely recommend this boat(its my second Mainhip) but not too many about.

I used a Dutch agent south of Amsterdam, they buy second hand boats in the med and do them up, very competitive prices even with VAT on top. I bought in 2018 so did not have to pay vat.

Jacht kopen of jacht verkopen | Jacht makelaar | Shipcar Yachts

2004 Mainship Trawler 400 Flybridge for sale - YachtWorld

 

[SimonD]

I can't say I'm persuaded by the argument that twin rudders helps manouvering but I'm with Elessar in the benefits of a stern thruster. That said, I can get mine to moves sideways using propwash and the bow thruster in the opposite direction. I too was surprised at the lack of prop walk. My boat before last was a Moody 35 and it kicked like a mule. Very handy for coming port side to, not so great the other way! To reverse into our berth, I come down the fairway and stop when I (sitting in the middle of the boat) am level with the pontoon. I then use the bow thruster to rotate the boat 90 degrees and reverse in. Usually very straightforward.

The Mainship looks very nice, particularly if you're planning to live onboard for long periods. We looked at a Halvorsen Gourmet 32 - in a similar vein and a great (single engine) liveaboard. It's not 32 feet long though! In the end we went for the simplicity, reputation, build quality and owner support of the Nimbus.

 

[DipperToo]

I can't say I'm persuaded by the argument that twin rudders helps manouvering but I'm with Elessar in the benefits of a stern thruster. That said, I can get mine to moves sideways using propwash and the bow thruster in the opposite direction. I too was surprised at the lack of prop walk. My boat before last was a Moody 35 and it kicked like a mule. Very handy for coming port side to, not so great the other way! To reverse into our berth, I come down the fairway and stop when I (sitting in the middle of the boat) am level with the pontoon. I then use the bow thruster to rotate the boat 90 degrees and reverse in. Usually very straightforward.

I think my issue raised was that from the little I know about Nimbus so far, the Nimbus 320 had a skeg and metal extension that also supported the bottom of the rudder (plus protection to a degree) whereas the 335 looks like the rudders are just 'open' either side of the prop (not sure how far apart they actually are). I may just call the UK agents (Offshore Powerboats) to find put a bit more about how rugged this setup is as a lot of the cruising grounds I visit are littered with lobster pots! Luckily no mishaps to date!
As always, thanks again to all for the very helpful insights.

 

[mainshiptom]

As age takes its toll on the physical effort with sailing, I have been giving some thought to moving to a semi-displacement motor boat.
As I do a fair amount of short handed sailing, one criteria I have been looking for is easy access to the side decks when mooring. So far, the only boats I have seen in the 32-36 foot range with a side door are either the Trawler type of boat or Nimbus with their 36 foot coupe model.
Speed is not an essential part of the equation but seaworthiness (Cat A or B) is a must to do longer channel crossings. Also, second hand is not an issue as some of these boats are eye watering when new! A fly bridge is not a requirement as I would almost prefer something a bit more traditional rather than a modern, fast planing type of craft.
Do any forum members here have experience or knowledge of boats that are worth putting on a short list which importantly have the easy side deck access from the helm position?
Thanks in advance.

NIMBUS 380 COMMANDER motor yacht for sale | De Valk Yacht broker

 

[Farmer Piles]

There is a 335 or 365 for sale in Fowey too.