The Spray…and Joshua Slocum

[Wansworth]

For our younger readers the Spary circumnavigated back in the 1890s,the first to do so.The design was an old fishing vessel from the eastern seaboard of the USA.As the boat apparently sailed itself I wonder why it was not more popular although in the 1970 there was a revival and the design was adapted to steel construction.What I like about the boat is it’s a working vessel and the accomodation is secondary although quite adequate,giving deck space to working the nrig.There are reams of accounts about the Sparay and in YouTube.Hopefully my humble copies from the 1948 edition will not be censored

 

[MisterBaxter]

I think the design lacks the windward ability that people now take for granted - Slocum, as a former captain of square riggers, was happy to plan a long downwind voyage, so didn't mind. The modern design is generally more of a motor sailer, with huge accommodation because of the wide beam. That said, I've heard of one that was given a very large gaff rig and apparently sailed quite well.

 

[Poignard]

I think the design lacks the windward ability that people now take for granted - Slocum, as a former captain of square riggers, was happy to plan a long downwind voyage, so didn't mind. The modern design is generally more of a motor sailer, with huge accommodation because of the wide beam. That said, I've heard of one that was given a very large gaff rig and apparently sailed quite well.

Good point, but would the East Coast fisherman for whom Spray was originally built have been prepared to put up with a poor performance to windward when his livelihood depended on getting his catch to market as quickly as possible?

 

[Wansworth]

Many yachts that we have to choose from are just designs using racing boats asthe basis so starting off from the wrong foot.Now second hand market lumbered with so called cruisers with large headsails and small mains.

 

[Bajansailor]

Here is a good analysis of Spray by Michael Kasten - in it he mentions a Spray replica called Scud.
I met the family on Scud here in Barbados in the early 70's - she was an absolutely faithful replica, even down to the coal stove (rather than gas or paraffin). However it was not a happy family, with a very authoritarian and obsessive Dad, and 3 teenage kids - they did go around the world, but they were lacking in basic creature comforts (even for the early 70's) - I think their daughter bailed out along the way..
https://www.kastenmarine.com/spray.htm

Their elder son Gary was not put off by all this though, and he subsequently followed in his Dad's footsteps and became an accomplished traditional shipwright - he rebuilt the former trading schooner 'Alabama' in Martha's Vineyard, and a Scottish Zulu fishing boat called Violet, which he then set sail on around the world with his own family - although they DID have an engine, electricity and even refrigeration......
Here is a thread I started on here 15 years ago about her.
The Scottish Zulu 'Violet'

 

[Wansworth]

Here is a good analysis of Spray by Michael Kasten - in it he mentions a Spray replica called Scud.
I met the family on Scud here in Barbados in the early 70's - she was an absolutely faithful replica, even down to the coal stove (rather than gas or paraffin). However it was not a happy family, with a very authoritarian and obsessive Dad, and 3 teenage kids - they did go around the world, but they were lacking in basic creature comforts (even for the early 70's) - I think their daughter bailed out along the way..
https://www.kastenmarine.com/spray.htm

Their elder son Gary was not put off by all this though, and he subsequently followed in his Dad's footsteps and became an accomplished traditional shipwright - he rebuilt the former trading schooner 'Alabama' in Martha's Vineyard, and a Scottish Zulu fishing boat called Violet, which he then set sail on around the world with his own family - although they DID have an engine, electricity and even refrigeration......
Here is a thread I started on here 15 years ago about her.
The Scottish Zulu 'Violet'

Interesting commentary on the Spray

 

[jwilson]

Good point, but would the East Coast fisherman for whom Spray was originally built have been prepared to put up with a poor performance to windward when his livelihood depended on getting his catch to market as quickly as possible?

Spray originally had a centreboard - very common on working boats on the NE US coast. I believe Slocum removed it along with increasing the freeboard when he rebuilt her. Many sailing fishing boats had deliberately low freeboard aft to aid net handling.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

It's worth bearing in mind that Spray was basically unstable with a very low AVS by modern standards. Slocum was a consummate sailor, so he was OK with that, but there is a school of thought that suggests that was how he was lost; the other possibility is that he was run down.

 

[Frank Holden]

'Spray' was a boat that was given to Slocum.

'Liberdade' was a boat he designed and built JOSHUA SLOCUM: His Family Cruise Aboard Liberdade - Wave Train

I have a copy of his book about that voyage somewhere, dunno where.

If I was to choose between the two I would choose the latter. JOSHUA SLOCUM'S LIBERDADE: Where Is She Now? - Wave Train

The designer of the steel sprays was just trading on the name.

 

[Poignard]

Available to download or read from Project Gutenberg, free of charge.

Voyage of the Liberdade by Joshua Slocum

 

[Wansworth]

cannot showvideo

 

[MisterBaxter]

Good point, but would the East Coast fisherman for whom Spray was originally built have been prepared to put up with a poor performance to windward when his livelihood depended on getting his catch to market as quickly as possible?

Yes - it probably had decent performance to windward for an early 19th century fishing boat, which would have been thoroughly acceptable for a square rigger captain making a recreational voyage, but poor by the standards of a 21st century recreational sailer...
Although the AVS was also not good by modern standards, the boat was immensely heavy and wide for its length, with a fairly low, simple rig, so it would have taken extraordinary circumstances to capsize it.

 

[DownWest]

I have Voyage of the Liberdade. Basicly he lost his trading square rigger after grounding in Brasil. The Liberdade was to get his wife and boy back to NE USA.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Yes - it probably had decent performance to windward for an early 19th century fishing boat, which would have been thoroughly acceptable for a square rigger captain making a recreational voyage, but poor by the standards of a 21st century recreational sailer...
Although the AVS was also not good by modern standards, the boat was immensely heavy and wide for its length, with a fairly low, simple rig, so it would have taken extraordinary circumstances to capsize it.

Slocum, of course, used the well-known downwind sailing passages using the Trade Winds. I doubt if he ever went to windward for any significant length of time; if the wind wasn't right, he either waited or went somewhere else! Sailing to Windward would be something he only did to enter a port or other end-of-voyage maneuvering.

Fishermen probably planned their fishing so they went upwind on the outward passage and downwind home! No doubt they worked tides and land or sea breezes to ensure they got back from the fishing grounds ASAP.

The point about the AVS is not merely that it was low, but also that she would seem stable right up to the point where she wasn't; a bit like a catamaran. I don't know the technical terminology, but my understanding is that she had great initial resistance to heeling, but that after a certain point, the resistance to heeling diminished very quickly. Slocum, of course, knew exactly what he was doing and would reef in plenty of time. But, like a catamaran, the wrong sea conditions could capsize her.

 

[Wansworth]

Slocum, of course, used the well-known downwind sailing passages using the Trade Winds. I doubt if he ever went to windward for any significant length of time; if the wind wasn't right, he either waited or went somewhere else! Sailing to Windward would be something he only did to enter a port or other end-of-voyage maneuvering.

Fishermen probably planned their fishing so they went upwind on the outward passage and downwind home! No doubt they worked tides and land or sea breezes to ensure they got back from the fishing grounds ASAP.

The point about the AVS is not merely that it was low, but also that she would seem stable right up to the point where she wasn't; a bit like a catamaran. I don't know the technical terminology, but my understanding is that she had great initial resistance to heeling, but that after a certain point, the resistance to heeling diminished very quickly. Slocum, of course, knew exactly what he was doing and would reef in plenty of time. But, like a catamaran, the wrong sea conditions could capsize her.

Well he did alright

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Well he did alright

Well, until he didn't - Slocum was lost at sea; the circumstances are unknown, but two hypotheses are that either he was run down or Spray passed that AVS!

 

[Daedelus]

Club member built a 2/3 (I think) replica of Spray and used to claim victory in all club races on handicap - he claimed every other boat he had ever met could overtake him,

 

[Praxinoscope]

One of our club members Dave Sinnet-Jones, now sadly passed away built a steel version of Spray which he did a single handed circumnavigation, unfortunately a few years after this it sunk in the Irish Sea and was never recovered,
He later built a copy of the Liberdade which he crossed the Atlantic in, he left it in the USA intendng to bring it back to the UK but this never happened, one of our club members attempted to sail it back but because of a series of problems he turned back so it is still sitting in the USA.
David published three books about his travels, 'Not all plain Sailing', 'A Passion for Life' and'To the Cape of Storms'
There is a plaque to commemorate David on the harbour wall in Aberaeron.

 

[SaltyC]

One of our club members Dave Sinnet-Jones, now sadly passed away built a steel version of Spray which he did a single handed circumnavigation, unfortunately a few years after this it sunk in the Irish Sea and was never recovered,
He later built a copy of the Liberdade which he crossed the Atlantic in, he left it in the USA intendng to bring it back to the UK but this never happened, one of our club members attempted to sail it back but because of a series of problems he turned back so it is still sitting in the USA.
David published three books about his travels, 'Not all plain Sailing', 'A Passion for Life' and'To the Cape of Storms'
There is a plaque to commemorate David on the harbour wall in Aberaeron.

View attachment 164227

Hmmm the moraleof the story being avoid the Irish Sea?????

It does have it's own sea pattern.

 

[Praxinoscope]

Hmmm the moraleof the story being avoid the Irish Sea?????

It does have it's own sea pattern.

For once not the fault of the Irish Sea, Dave welded some additional bilge keels on to Zane Spray, and there was we think a fault in his welding as one of the keels dislodged and ripped a hole in the hull.