The realities of boat buying at the bottom end of the market

Seems to be plenty of love for the Hardy...other than soft decks, any particular gotchas with these?

There does seem to be loads out there to choose from which is always an advantage

Did consider the motor sailers but I want to be able to do some reasonable distance in a weekend so would want something that can plane and cruise at 15knt or so...at that size I think I could live with an outboard....if there's a need for ballast in the bow, it may as well be fuel! .

Thanks for the various bits of advice....some aligns with my thinking and some (boat fridges) hadn't even crossed my mind...plenty to think about.
 
I don't get this pessimistic view stuff ....

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OK .. its not a big boat Primor 24 .. its limited in 'cabin ammenities' .... but at 4200 euros - she's been a beaut. If OP is looking at 15K for his boat ... then why so many negative replies ?

Survey ? Sea Trial ? Both despite my background - both can be over-rated IMHO. Engines can have water provided for cooling and started up ... Motor Boat is not like a sailboat with all its extra rigging / masts etc.

Boats and Outboards and similar online sites can lead to some nice boats ...
 
After looking at the Hardy, my wife and I while out cycling along the canal, she stopped and said "I like that one" pointing at a boat I had showed an advert for to her and she had rejected it :) this is about the same size as @Refueler 's Primor above but built for a different use
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Interior: the berth in the bow was about 1.80m if you lay diagonal feet to the bow, the table would drop to provide another double it was still only 1.84m long and was cramped. We did do over 200km on her over the time we had her, apart from the one trip of over 160km most were short trips of about 30km.
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We negotiated with the seller and got her for a good price, €6k, she did need pretty much a complete gut out and we spent another €1k on renewing the interior, however on our first week long cruise we found her too cramped for her our ancient bodies.

After that we put her up for sale whilst we looked for another boat, the one we found was another late 1970's but at 11.6m a bit bigger than Casper above, apart from normal maintenance she was pretty much ready to go as the previous owner had spent a fortune (more than we paid for the boat) on her before he passed away and we bought the boat from his estate.
We paid almost double your budget for Hunter here.
Hunter threequarters bowSM.jpg
We are the 3rd owners from new, I posted up a trip report about our journey from near Rotterdam back to our quiet little backwater in Belgium on the forum here.
We are off on her tomorrow for a week long cruise to Hasselt in Belgium, since buying her last September we have done about 500km on the canals in Belgium and The Netherlands, the only thing we really miss from Casper is the big lazarette she had.
 
garethep said:
Seems to be plenty of love for the Hardy...other than soft decks, any particular gotchas with these?

There does seem to be loads out there to choose from which is always an advantage

Did consider the motor sailers but I want to be able to do some reasonable distance in a weekend so would want something that can plane and cruise at 15knt or so...at that size I think I could live with an outboard....if there's a need for ballast in the bow, it may as well be fuel! .
Click to expand...
Very few gotchas - they are generally very well built boats, the hulls are rock solid and the only things are "normal" boaty issues through age or bad maintenance. Personally I wouldn't buy a diesel Pilot or Navigator as they are all stern drive/outdrive, and other than the few very late examples with more modern and larger Volvo units are pretty dog slow. As with all boats there are typically big differences between the very cheap ~£5k examples and the higher end of the market, in both general hull/boat/interior/electronics condition and engine age/condition/power. If you want to get something you can use as opposed to a never ending project, I'd aim somewhere in the middle!

I think for a well maintained Navigator 18 with a decent sized modern 4 stroke engine typically £7-9k, and for a Pilot 20/SE £9-14k. You will find examples higher than that for very late models of each, brand new engines, etc., but for those price bands you should get a very solid useable boat that you can jump on and go for the season. Not mine, but there's a lovely 1998 Pilot 20 SE with a 2022 Mariner 75hp currently in Burnham on Crouch advertised for £13,700 - lots of examples come up on the Hardy Facebook groups, worth joining those if you are considering a Hardy.

If you've never been on a smaller Hardy also worth finding one close by and getting onboard for a look and feel. Don't get me wrong, I love my Navigator 18, have used it up and down the Hamble and Thames for nearly 3 years and it's a brilliant all weather/all season cruiser with protected helm, comfortable ride, good turn of speed, etc. But if you want to spend much time living on them, they are fairly small boats and whilst a lot is squeezed in, it is all quite tight, limited headroom, lots of crouching, etc. So more akin to camping on the water, but for that they are great!
 
garethep said:
I'm contemplating buying myself a boat...I've identified a couple of models that would meet my requirements and the going rate seems to align with my budget of c.£15k.
I've done loads of reading up on the recommended process for buying and all the things to look out for but, at this level, most of the likely options are to be found on the likes of eBay or Facebook marketplace where questions about surveys, vat status or registration just get the email equivalent of a "blank look" from the seller.
So I could look at boats sold by brokers but you are then laying over the odds and I'm not certain there is a huge amount of protection in reality, likewise is £5-600 for a survey really giving much protection over and above what a conciencious DIY inspection would provide.

Noting that, at this price range, the value is really the engine and trailer with a free hull attached, what are the really key things that a chartered engineer with a reasonable experience of messing about in boats should take as imperative and which can safely be "glossed over"

Go gentle on me...I'm new to this 😃
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Don’t buy anything with an outdrive
 
Refueler said:
I don't get this pessimistic view stuff ....

OK .. its not a big boat Primor 24 .. its limited in 'cabin ammenities' .... but at 4200 euros - she's been a beaut. If OP is looking at 15K for his boat ... then why so many negative replies ?

Survey ? Sea Trial ? Both despite my background - both can be over-rated IMHO. Engines can have water provided for cooling and started up ... Motor Boat is not like a sailboat with all its extra rigging / masts etc.

Boats and Outboards and similar online sites can lead to some nice boats ...
Click to expand...
Totally Agree - the rest is just snobbery.
A Boat is a boat and the best fun to be had is on the water regardless of size.
I was once asked about a scenario - what would I choose from a Superyacht or a small tender - I took the tender - Why because the tender can get everywhere the superyacht was restricted.
 
garethep said:
I'm contemplating buying myself a boat...I've identified a couple of models that would meet my requirements and the going rate seems to align with my budget of c.£15k.
I've done loads of reading up on the recommended process for buying and all the things to look out for but, at this level, most of the likely options are to be found on the likes of eBay or Facebook marketplace where questions about surveys, vat status or registration just get the email equivalent of a "blank look" from the seller.
So I could look at boats sold by brokers but you are then laying over the odds and I'm not certain there is a huge amount of protection in reality, likewise is £5-600 for a survey really giving much protection over and above what a conciencious DIY inspection would provide.

Go gentle on me...I'm new to this 😃
Click to expand...
I would personally avoid Facebook Market place as scammer's seemed to be more present there.
As for surveyors you have to weigh up the pros and cons if you are happy to take a gamble on a boat then go for it - if you want piece of mind of a surveyor and consider 15k is a lot of money to you then its better to "lose" £600 or so over 15k.
But this is my opinion
 
jon and michie said:
Totally Agree - the rest is just snobbery.
A Boat is a boat and the best fun to be had is on the water regardless of size.
I was once asked about a scenario - what would I choose from a Superyacht or a small tender - I took the tender - Why because the tender can get everywhere the superyacht was restricted.
Click to expand...

Some years ago - YBW had an article in one of its magazines .... Small Boats do more ... or words similar .. its a long while back.

Basically the article was based on boat owners being asked how often they took their boats out for a sail .. AND how much 'fun' they had ..

The small boats won hands down ...
 
jon and michie said:
I would personally avoid Facebook Market place as scammer's seemed to be more present there.
As for surveyors you have to weigh up the pros and cons if you are happy to take a gamble on a boat then go for it - if you want piece of mind of a surveyor and consider 15k is a lot of money to you then its better to "lose" £600 or so over 15k.
But this is my opinion
Click to expand...
Definitely need to be very careful on there (as both a buyer and seller), but I first saw and/or bought both my Hardy Navigator and Saga 26 HT on FB Marketplace and got two great boats!
 
So here's my twopenneth...

1) To replace an engine and outdrive (for the budget you have most will be Inboard / outdrive) is (as a proportion) massively more on a £5-15k boat than a £200,000 boat - on the 200k boat it might be 10% of the value on the 15k boat it might be same cost again. So make sure (as far as you can) that the engine and drive are in good fettle. Now whilst the look is not everything, looking at the state of it is a good tell - for example a rusty set of pully's and so on says more "neglect" to me than clean and shiny newish looking.. .Don't confuse dirty with uncared for - it can be dirty and well looked after but maintained and rust free is what you want. Likewise a clean outdrive with new looking bellows etc is better than covered in crud....

2) Make sure it does what you need - cheaper to pay a bit more and get a boat that works for you than buy one and have to sell it within a year because you love boating but the boat doesn't do what you want.

3) Outboards might be easier to service and maintain than inboard / sterndrive - but £15k is deffo Inboard / sterndrive territory....

Just use common sense and don't be swayed because it "looks sexy" or whatever - make sure it's a good sound boat....

Keep a bit back for "fixing" things you didn't spot.... if you can afford £15k spend 10 or 12 - because there WILL be things to fix.....

And I don't know about the broker thing - I sometimes think a good broker won't sell an absolute shed if he knows it's knackered or will try to persuade the seller to be honest about it's faults to reduce potential comebacks.... a private seller can just lie through their teeth....

And you want a proper sea trial with the engine under proper load - on muffs few engines will overheat - under load might be different....
 
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