The Law of Tonnage

[zoidberg]

I'm aware of the Brittany Ferries' 'Armorique', when faced with a large gaggle of Fastnet boats in the approach to the Finish at the Western Breakwater Light - and a very light breeze - slowing right down to allow the racers to finish and get clear, instead of insisting/imposing her rights under IRPCS.

That was very considerate seamanship and courtesy was much appreciated.

 

[doug748]

Nice to hear about the Amorique.


Best thing about the video in post 1 was the Captain's phrase: "One whistle pass"- for Port to Port. Will remember that, not heard it before.

 

[chrishscorp]

As to examiner ... he was the Senior DTI Mates and Masters examiner in Southampton ... I think he has a bit more savvy than you give him credit for ...

Can you remember the examiners name or a description of him ? If its who i think it is he was very strict. PM me if you can remember

 

[zoidberg]

Reminds me of a tale I heard in a Newlyn pub, when new RNLI rules meant their lifeboat cox'n, a fisherman/skipper all his days, was required to go up to Lunn'un to be examined for a Board of Trade 'ticket'.

He wrapped hi'self in his brothers's best pea-jacket, polished up his Sunday boots and Church Hat and, after some adventures, duly presented hi'self at a grand building in Whitehall. He was eventually ushered into an oak-panelled meeting room for the dreaded 'Examination'.

The committee, including Younger Brothers of Trinity House and a couple of Extra-Masters from the Nautical Institute, were an imposing lot. Their questions ranged far across topics and situations our Cornishman had little need of, but he fought his way through- as always - until the President of the Board almost floored him with the question "Tell me, my man, What is the best light in the English Channel?"

Our man shuffled his feet, shifted uneasily on his seat, ran a gnarled finger around his unaccustomed collar, and eventually replied....

"Well, zur. I dunno for shure, but I reckons it's daylight, zur."

 

[Refueler]

Can you remember the examiners name or a description of him ? If its who i think it is he was very strict. PM me if you can remember

Blimey ... its years ago ... all I remember was he was the Senior Examiner in S'oton .... when they were at Dock Gate 10. Name ?? No idea now. We're talking late 70's into early 80's

Description ? Medium height .. about 5-10 I reckon ... clean shaven, tidy looking and smart, mid 50's ? lean to medium build ... I remember he had a smooth disarming voice - you didn't feel pressed when he spoke.

The one I do remember was another I had in Plymouth for an earlier Aurals .... Capt. Braid - who had a fearful reputation. Ex British and Commonwealth Shipping ... hated Tanker guys !! He was the lead DTI guy on an investigation into a small container ship disaster in the Channel ...

 

[Kukri]

A friend failed his Masters last summer by going to port in a Rule 19 (d) situation.

 

[Refueler]

A friend failed his Masters last summer by going to port in a Rule 19 (d) situation.

Fair comment - but would be better if all detail was included - question and actual reply ..... at least I described my question and reply ...

19d is a bit different circumstance to my question / answer !!

Sorry to paste it here - but I think it needs to be clear what you are posting about ...

Rule 19 Conduct of vessels in restricted visibility
(a) This Rule applies to vessels not in sight of one another when navigating in or near an area of restricted visibility.
(b) Every vessel shall proceed at a safe speed adapted to the prevailing circumstances and conditions of restricted visibility. A power-driven vessel shall have her engines ready for immediate manoeuvre.
(c) Every vessel shall have due regard to the prevailing circumstances and conditions of restricted visibility when complying with the Rules of Section I of this Part.
(d) A vessel which detects by radar alone the presence of another vessel shall determine if a closequarters situation is developing and/or risk of collision exists. If so, she shall take avoiding action in ample time, provided that when such action consists of an alteration of course, so far as possible the following shall be avoided:

(i) an alteration of course to port for a vessel forward of the beam, other than for a vessel being overtaken;
(ii) an alteration of course towards a vessel abeam or abaft the beam.

(e) Except where it has been determined that a risk of collision does not exist, every vessel which hears apparently forward of her beam the fog signal of another vessel, or which cannot avoid a close-quarters situation with another vessel forward of her beam, shall reduce her speed to the minimum at which she can be kept on her course. She shall if necessary take all her way off and in any event navigate with extreme caution until danger of collision is over.

 

[Kukri]

Fair comment - but would be better if all detail was included - question and actual reply ..... at least I described my question and reply ...

In the circumstances I am reluctant to ask! He’s a really good Mate and had a command waiting for him (British company). Examination was in Soton.

Anyway, yes the video was much better than I was expecting.

 

[dom]

Fair comment - but would be better if all detail was included - question and actual reply ..... at least I described my question and reply ...

Tricky area this because of the requirement to effectively determine a priori, “if a close-quarters situation is developing and/or risk of collision exists”. Which of course opens a big grey area of subjectivity.

Was your friend’s case in your opinion warranted, as in he contravened 19d(i“) or (ii), or just an overly pedantic examiner?

 

[Refueler]

Restricted viz brings in a whole set of limitations that over-ride what may be action in clear viz.

One of the things i was taught from day one and the other cadets around me ..... Do not assume that everyone else has radar on or fitted. Even if they have - are they plotting ...

Assume you are the only one and act accordingly.

 

[Kukri]

Tricky area this because of the requirement to effectively determine a priori, “if a close-quarters situation is developing and/or risk of collision exists”. Which of course opens a big grey area of subjectivity.

Was your friend’s case in your opinion warranted, as in he contravened 19d(i“) or (ii), or just an overly pedantic examiner?

All I can say really is that he has been at sea with the same company (see my avatar..) for ten years, they are a big outfit with a very well established reporting system and he has a bulk carrier command waiting for him when he passes . From his account I don’t think there was a 19d(i) or (ii) contravention.

 

[dom]

All I can say really is that he has been at sea with the same company (see my avatar..) for ten years, they are a big outfit with a very well established reporting system and he has a bulk carrier command waiting for him when he passes . From his account I don’t think there was a 19d(i) or (ii) contravention.

Rough to be failed in the grey zone like that and more than a bit demoralising. We‘ve all seen quite correct alterations to port for the purposes of steering clear of developing pressure points.

Time for some warm support from the company, a deep breath, and another attempt. The fact that they’re prepared to entrust a big ship with him speaks volumes as it’s their kit ultimately on the line!

Wish him good luck from the Forum

 

[Uricanejack]

A friend failed his Masters last summer by going to port in a Rule 19 (d) situation.

I damn near failed mine by going to starboard, in a rule 19 situation. 30 odd years ago, I still remember the sweat and blood I Lost over the next half hour. Before I figured it out.

the question,

The examiner told me his desk was a radar screen, thick fog.
My heading straight towards him. Course and speed i can’t remember . 10 , 15 knots. Doesn’t matter.
He placed round white magnet on his desk, at the edge of the “screen”. About 2 points to Port.
Three minutes later the next a couple of inches closer to center of my screen.
Three minutes later a 3rd magnet a couple of inches closer.

I replied with a bold alteration to starboard of at least 60 degrees.

I went rapidly downhill from there, to a point where he called ma a “F@#$$&*( Parrot “ with no clue what the rules actually meant.

Shortly after quoting the rule 19 again for the 3rd or 4th time, I finally clewed in and got the point.

I also proved I knew little nothing about ship handling, Admitting what little I know was from a book, I hadn’t, actually read. He burst into guffaws, when I tried to explain how to load grain. Apparently I gave the most ridiculous answer he had ever heard.

In the wrap up he divided to pass me, because for rule 19. I hand not changed my mind, and eventually figured it out.

Can anyone guess where I went wrong?

 

[Uricanejack]

All I can say really is that he has been at sea with the same company (see my avatar..) for ten years, they are a big outfit with a very well established reporting system and he has a bulk carrier command waiting for him when he passes . From his account I don’t think there was a 19d(i) or (ii) contravention.

He will learn from it and do ok next time.
My guess, he probably made the same error I did.

 

[westhinder]

I damn near failed mine by going to starboard, in a rule 19 situation. 30 odd years ago, I still remember the sweat and blood I Lost over the next half hour. Before I figured it out.

the question,

The examiner told me his desk was a radar screen, thick fog.
My heading straight towards him. Course and speed i can’t remember . 10 , 15 knots. Doesn’t matter.
He placed round white magnet on his desk, at the edge of the “screen”. About 2 points to Port.
Three minutes later the next a couple of inches closer to center of my screen.
Three minutes later a 3rd magnet a couple of inches closer.

I replied with a bold alteration to starboard of at least 60 degrees.

I went rapidly downhill from there, to a point where he called ma a “F@#$$&*( Parrot “ with no clue what the rules actually meant.

Shortly after quoting the rule 19 again for the 3rd or 4th time, I finally clewed in and got the point.

I also proved I knew little nothing about ship handling, Admitting what little I know was from a book, I hadn’t, actually read. He burst into guffaws, when I tried to explain how to load grain. Apparently I gave the most ridiculous answer he had ever heard.

In the wrap up he divided to pass me, because for rule 19. I hand not changed my mind, and eventually figured it out.

Can anyone guess where I went wrong?

Surely in this day and age, the seamanlike thing to do if the slightest doubt can arise, is to call up the other ship and agree what is going to happen? I hear this all the time in the busy approaches to the Belgian ports and the mouth of the Schelde, officers and pilots are talking to one another and agreeing how they are going to pass. There is no excuse any more that you do not know the name of the other ship, no more ’ship in position xyz‘ nonsense.

 

[RichardS]

I damn near failed mine by going to starboard, in a rule 19 situation. 30 odd years ago, I still remember the sweat and blood I Lost over the next half hour. Before I figured it out.

the question,

The examiner told me his desk was a radar screen, thick fog.
My heading straight towards him. Course and speed i can’t remember . 10 , 15 knots. Doesn’t matter.
He placed round white magnet on his desk, at the edge of the “screen”. About 2 points to Port.
Three minutes later the next a couple of inches closer to center of my screen.
Three minutes later a 3rd magnet a couple of inches closer.

I replied with a bold alteration to starboard of at least 60 degrees.

I went rapidly downhill from there, to a point where he called ma a “F@#$$&*( Parrot “ with no clue what the rules actually meant.

Shortly after quoting the rule 19 again for the 3rd or 4th time, I finally clewed in and got the point.

I also proved I knew little nothing about ship handling, Admitting what little I know was from a book, I hadn’t, actually read. He burst into guffaws, when I tried to explain how to load grain. Apparently I gave the most ridiculous answer he had ever heard.

In the wrap up he divided to pass me, because for rule 19. I hand not changed my mind, and eventually figured it out.

Can anyone guess where I went wrong?

Any examiner who uses an expletive towards a candidate has thereby rendered him or herself totally unfit for the role and their opinion can be safely dismissed.

Richard

 

[zoidberg]

I damn near failed mine by going to starboard, in a rule 19 situation.

Can anyone guess where I went wrong?

'Line Of Constant Bearing' established.... in fog..... magnets at 3 min. interval representing series of plots.
Take all way off ship ( or reduce to bare steerage way ).... Rule 19e
Subsequent 'magnets' plots will show target passing ahead clear..... unless target vessel also takes way off ship.
Consider Rule 35 Sound Signals when appropriate.

?

 

[requiem]

In the wrap up he divided to pass me, because for rule 19. I hand not changed my mind, and eventually figured it out.

Can anyone guess where I went wrong?

The manoeuvre itself looks correct; you're effectively rotating his line of relative motion away from you and off to port. It's also compliant with 19(d). Was it that you couldn't/didn't explain the why of it beyond citing the rule?

It wasn't stated that this was close quarters or a foghorn was heard, so I'm assuming 19(e) isn't in play.

 

[PilotWolf]

I can say with all honesty ... best seafood and especially Shellfish - is from COLD water .... not warm. Lobster ... Prawns ... Shrimp ... Crab ... far superior from cold waters ...
North Altlantic Cod ....

Some of the most attractive food has been in USA ... but so tasteless .... !!

And to cap it all .. when I worked for Chevron in Gulf of Mexico .. we shunned all Florida Watermelon ... it looked superb but was bitter from all the nitrogen rich crap it was fed on to be first to market. Best was the later more natural grown Mississippi Watermelon ...

Then you've been eating in the wrong places I agree there is some crap food out there but their is also some really high quality offerings too.

W.

 

[Refueler]

Any examiner who uses an expletive towards a candidate has thereby rendered him or herself totally unfit for the role and their opinion can be safely dismissed.

Richard

You've never sat DTI aurals then ..... forget niceties .... they are there to put you ON THE SPOT and see how you react and solve the situation they put you in.

UJ's mention of loading grain .... Dear old Capt Braid in Plymouth - as I say hated Tankermen ... and there was I a young Shell cadet ...
OK laddie ... you have to load for 6 ports India all different general cargo on an SD14 ..... describe for me your layout and thoughts for this.

I took a chance and was honesat and said I did not have aclue but would consider that port rotation would be prime factor. He sniffed ... coughed ... while I adjmitted I was a tanker man and this sort of question never arose.

OK Laddie ... you've just discharged a cargo of Fuel OIl and you get orders to load different grades of Gasoil - describe preparing the ship ...

Sir - NO tanker would normally go from Black to White without serious work which is generally beyond ships basic cleaning ability (NOTE : this is 1977 .... and old style ships) .....

Laddie ANSWER THE B***** question ...

Sir - I would refer to the company cleaning schedules and also charterers instructions regarding Hot / Cold SW cleaning and then flushing with FW after. If necessary consult Verwys Guide.

Laddie - so you dont know the answer ?

Image me ... I'm a 50 quid a month Cadet going for his ticket - that ticket will jump me from 50 quid to 3000 quid a month ... and I'm watching those pound notes fly out the bl**** window ...

I was lucky that even though I failed that first aurals - I was allowed to retake within minimum time after and Shell had stood by me .... in fact I was promoted to 4th Mate while waiting retry.
When I went in for second attempt ... different examiner and he had the notes from Capt Braid ...

I see you met Capt Braid .... mmmmmm .... lets see what we can do now ...

15 mins later I walked out with a big beeming smile on my face ...