The ideal blue water yacht

[coopec]

Reading all these so called "essentials" for so defined boats is even more confusing. You're expanding a list of home comforts for long distance travel.

For me, the number one requirements for a "blue water boat" would be:

a) self-righting​

b) something as simple as a cabin that is properly water tight (no through channels from engine hatches etc)​

c) a very high degree of level flotation would come third​

Now, clearly most boats that have crossed oceans "safely" don't actually have these and, certainly, the bigger and more comfortable they become, they harder it is for them to be so. But, for me, when I hear the term "blue water" it doesn't mean homely long distance cruiser; it means capable of surviving the worst the sea can throw at it at least once.

So stick oversized chainplates for a drogue on that list too. If all else fails, may be you'll be able to through your fridge-freezer-icemaker over the side attached to them to save you?

Which all begs the question, are they "safe" or just lucky?

Ask the guys who never made it past Fastnet.

I agree with most of what you say but have issues with people saying a yacht is Blue Water yacht because " clearly most boats that have crossed oceans "safely""

Would you be happy entering Pacific coral atolls and lagoons (or sailing anywhere in the Pacific and SE Asia) in a modern day production boat? (I'd feel a lot safer if the hull was steel) Did you look at the video clip of a yacht navigating coral reefs? Comment #138 above

Pacific Dreams
"Apr 3, 2019 — There are around 80 islands and atolls making up the Tuamotus, ... could be any number of unchartered patches of shallow coral heads. ... realized were waves breaking on the outside of the reef on the other side of the atoll."

Pacific Dreams

 

[Buck Turgidson]

So we're adding steel hull to the prerequisites now! You know there is coral in the Caribbean right? Best bet is not to hit it regardless of your hull material. I would be interested to know what % of leisure yachts currently afloat have steel hulls and what % in the treacherous Pacific. I'm astonished Oyster have managed to sell any of their junk.

 

[rogerthebodger]

So we're adding steel hull to the prerequisites now! You know there is coral in the Caribbean right? Best bet is not to hit it regardless of your hull material. I would be interested to know what % of leisure yachts currently afloat have steel hulls and what % in the treacherous Pacific. I'm astonished Oyster have managed to sell any of their junk.

Coopec asked the question "what is the ideal blue water boat" and did not make it a prerequisites.

Steel was not available for making boats in Captain Cook's day and he explored lots of coral reefs and even struck one but had to make major repairs.

 

[Hallberg-Rassy]

I'm astonished Oyster have managed to sell any of their junk.

Does anyone actually sail in [their own] Oyster? I thought they were for having drinks in.

Would you be happy entering Pacific coral atolls and lagoons (or sailing anywhere in the Pacific and SE Asia) in a modern day production boat? (I'd feel a lot safer if the hull was steel) Did you look at the video clip of a yacht navigating coral reefs?

I did. It's controversial but I'd actually have relatively shallow draft on my list too.

Most Oyster owners won't sail by braille. A few people followed the locals' examples and adopt multi-hulled approach.

But, again, I think we're struggling for a clearer definition of the terminology; cruiser, voyager, explorer ... I guess for me I'd stick "blue water" in the voyager category, ie for getting some place else. Coral fringed atolls are a bit like Buddhist temples in Asia, once you've seen one, you've seen them all; only it's more depressing because they are degrading quicker, with no one to look after them, and no one to pick up the plastic litter.

 

[coopec]

So we're adding steel hull to the prerequisites now! You know there is coral in the Caribbean right? Best bet is not to hit it regardless of your hull material. I would be interested to know what % of leisure yachts currently afloat have steel hulls and what % in the treacherous Pacific. I'm astonished Oyster have managed to sell any of their junk.

Where did I say it was a prerequisite?

"You know there is coral in the Caribbean right?"
What the hell are you on about?

Did you see the map I posted comment #138. Here it is for you again. (Do you know where the Caribbean is on the map?)

Good night!!

https://www.nasa.gov/images/content/153207main1_coralreef_map.jpg

 

[john_morris_uk]

Where did I say it was a prerequisite?

"You know there is coral in the Caribbean right?"
What the hell are you on about?

Did you see the map I posted comment #138. Here it is for you again. (Do you know where the Caribbean is on the map?)

Good night!!

https://www.nasa.gov/images/content/153207main1_coralreef_map.jpg

Am I the only one who thinks that sarcasm is never a good thing in a discussion.

To answer your question about GRP. Have you seen the videos of a GRP yacht being sailed at full speed into various solid obejects?

 

[rogerthebodger]

Am I the only one who thinks that sarcasm is never a good thing in a discussion.

To answer your question about GRP. Have you seen the videos of a GRP yacht being sailed at full speed into various solid obejects?

sarcasm has come from various quarters in the past and is never a good think but sometimes a poster just have to respond in kind.

I would like to see a solid object sailed/motored into a GRP boat and see the result and compare to the boat Gringo I posted.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Am I the only one who thinks that sarcasm is never a good thing in a discussion.

To answer your question about GRP. Have you seen the videos of a GRP yacht being sailed at full speed into various solid obejects?

. etc

 

[rogerthebodger]

. etc

John I was thinking about a test where a GRP boat was t boned by the Bulbous bow of a ship or even my 24 ton steel sailboat.

When Durban marina broke up lost of GRP boats where holed by the walkon moorings yet my steel boat only had deep gouging in the filler with no holes in the structure.

 

[NormanS]

When I was young and starting sailing, all the boats that we sailed in were either home built sailing dinghies, converted ship's boats, converted life boats, or possibly dinghies or whalers sold off by the RN. Gradually, as our cruising aspirations increased and developed, we started building small plywood sailing cruisers. None of us had money to spare. We did have energy and enthusiasm.

Now the wheel has turned full circle, and those who we used to term "check book" sailors are ridiculing a guy with enough guts and determination to build his own boat. Shame on you.

 

[john_morris_uk]

When I was young and starting sailing, all the boats that we sailed in were either home built sailing dinghies, converted ship's boats, converted life boats, or possibly dinghies or whalers sold off by the RN. Gradually, as our cruising aspirations increased and developed, we started building small plywood sailing cruisers. None of us had money to spare. We did have energy and enthusiasm.

Now the wheel has turned full circle, and those who we used to term "check book" sailors are ridiculing a guy with enough guts and determination to build his own boat. Shame on you.

No ridiculeling from me. However I do object to people making sweeping generalisations about the unsuitability of other peoples boats or their designs or features such as ‘fin keels’ or ‘constructed of grp’ for ocean sailing.

 

[PaulRainbow]

When I was young and starting sailing, all the boats that we sailed in were either home built sailing dinghies, converted ship's boats, converted life boats, or possibly dinghies or whalers sold off by the RN. Gradually, as our cruising aspirations increased and developed, we started building small plywood sailing cruisers. None of us had money to spare. We did have energy and enthusiasm.

Now the wheel has turned full circle, and those who we used to term "check book" sailors are ridiculing a guy with enough guts and determination to build his own boat. Shame on you.

I disagree. I have personally commented at how well Coopecs boat looks. But i am getting a bit fed up with his trolling posts telling us all how great his boat is and being rude and sarcastic to anyone who disagrees with him.

 

[RJJ]

When I was young and starting sailing, all the boats that we sailed in were either home built sailing dinghies, converted ship's boats, converted life boats, or possibly dinghies or whalers sold off by the RN. Gradually, as our cruising aspirations increased and developed, we started building small plywood sailing cruisers. None of us had money to spare. We did have energy and enthusiasm.

Now the wheel has turned full circle, and those who we used to term "check book" sailors are ridiculing a guy with enough guts and determination to build his own boat. Shame on you.

Again, nobody has ridiculed him for building his boat. Good work.

He's having a pop at those of us with different views and different boats. He's doing it repeatedly for goodness knows what reason. The ridicule, if any, is at the idea that there is any "ideal" boat. There are strengths and weaknesses, of boats and sailors, and we can all talk about them like grownups.

For me personally, a steel boat is NOT ideal because I don't have the time or skills to build one, and I haven't seen one that my family could live on for an extended period in sufficient comfort to be tolerable. The ideal boat for me has to be one that I can do the sailing I want to do, at the time I want to do it, which happens to be next year. If that means I better make sure not to hit any coral...then I won't hit any coral.

What is ridiculous is to share a paragraph that he thinks supports the point he is trying to share with everyone on a weekly basis, without seemingly reading the rest of the article which firmly supports the opposing view - there are plenty of viable boats for crossing oceans, safely, and having a nice time, and (without being flippant) it's the sailors that decide they are Bluewater boats.

 

[NormanS]

I am not commenting on his view about the suitability of different types of so called "Blue Water Yachts", but there have been several posts ridiculing the fact that Coopec's boat is sitting on the grass, and that it is taking him a long time to achieve his ambition. He deserves some respect for his tenacity, not ridicule (for example, something about bilge keels being better for getting in to cut the grass under the boat).

 

[Lightwave395]

Does anyone actually sail in [their own] Oyster? I thought they were for having drinks in.

I sail on / in my Oyster ( OTOH might not be the one you had in mind though)

I doubt it would suit many on here but I love it



Two of us live onboard for three months at a time in comfort (not this year sadly), did a RORC transatlantic race on a sistership, Pip Hare did an OSTAR on another

Downwind in 48 knots of breeze is my worst trip, I'd trust her anywhere, met a Belgian guy a few years ago who'd bought one to sail around the world

Despite it's lowly value I've had a lot of help from Oyster with maintenance and tech questions despite it being 30 years old

It's about what I can afford and what's fun to sail

Worth remembering Shane Acton crossed the Pacific in a plywood bilge keel 18' Caprice that cost him £400...

 

[Poignard]

[..]
To answer your question about GRP. Have you seen the videos of a GRP yacht being sailed at full speed into various solid obejects?

I would have thought a more likely scenario is getting amongst rocks or coral and having the topsides stove in.

 

[RJJ]

I am not commenting on his view about the suitability of different types of so called "Blue Water Yachts", but there have been several posts ridiculing the fact that Coopec's boat is sitting on the grass, and that it is taking him a long time to achieve his ambition. He deserves some respect for his tenacity, not ridicule (for example, something about bilge keels being better for getting in to cut the grass under the boat).

As with Newton's laws, there's action and reaction. I think you're describing the reaction...the explanation lies with what came before.

 

[john_morris_uk]

I would have thought a more likely scenario is getting amongst rocks or coral and having the topsides stove in.

I think we can all think of situations and examples where a particular hull construction and design might fail. It’s the fact that there’s no such thing as the perfect boat and that all boats are a compromise that should keep discussions on this topic interesting. It’s the failure of the occasional person to acknowledge this simple fact that makes discussion abrasive and so divided.

 

[michael_w]

Oi! Halberg! Here's my Oyster, note being sailed!


And overtaking the schooner to weather.

Difference in displacement between 'local cruising' and Full Monty ocean crossing mode is about 800 Kg.

 

[jordanbasset]

I am not commenting on his view about the suitability of different types of so called "Blue Water Yachts", but there have been several posts ridiculing the fact that Coopec's boat is sitting on the grass, and that it is taking him a long time to achieve his ambition. He deserves some respect for his tenacity, not ridicule (for example, something about bilge keels being better for getting in to cut the grass under the boat).

The thing about respect is that it has to be earned. His comments about boats others use to fulfil their own dreams/ambitions mean it is difficult for some to afford respect to some one so vocal in his criticism of other's choices