The Contessa - Sadler 26 dilema

[Snowgoose-1]

As always, compromises compromises.
Depends on how you feel about boat ownership. The Contessa is very pretty and gets 10 out of 10 for row away factor. No keel bolts to worry about and a slam once every season. Go anywhere and still quite good in light winds. I am obviously biased .

 

[Stemar]

As her hull is foam filled she is generally regarded as "unsinkable" so you don't need to think about liferafts

I'm not knocking the boat - everything I know about them says they're great, and everyone has to do their own risk assessment, but I wouldn't regard a foam filled hull as obviating the need for a life-raft. That foam sometimes gets soaked, reducing or removing the "unsinkability", then there's that one time you shouldn't wait to "step up into the life-raft", a fire.

 

[Mark-1]

I'm not knocking the boat - everything I know about them says they're great, and everyone has to do their own risk assessment, but I wouldn't regard a foam filled hull as obviating the need for a life-raft. That foam sometimes gets soaked, reducing or removing the "unsinkability", then there's that one time you shouldn't wait to "step up into the life-raft", a fire.

Agree they're excellent by all accounts, and I've always loved Sadlers, but I'd agree I've always been a little skeptical about the unsinkability of foam filled hulls.

I'm sure I'm wrong but I feel uneasy about additional weight from retrofitted stuff and the kit that always creeps in. Then will there be anywhere dry to sit in the unsinkable boat or are you left up to your waist in freezing water. Then there's fire.

If it reliably worked it would be great because it would buy you time to fix many types of ingress (stop cocks for instance) and pump it out, and then you're back to an enclosed survival space which really would be a lifesaver.

I'd love to see some calculations or tests.

 

[Tranona]

Agree they're excellent by all accounts, and I've always loved Sadlers, but I'd agree I've always been a little skeptical about the unsinkability of foam filled hulls.

I'm sure I'm wrong but I feel uneasy about additional weight from retrofitted stuff and the kit that always creeps in. Then will there be anywhere dry to sit in the unsinkable boat or are you left up to your waist in freezing water. Then there's fire.

If it reliably worked it would be great because it would buy you time to fix many types of ingress (stop cocks for instance) and pump it out, and then you're back to an enclosed survival space which really would be a lifesaver.

I'd love to see some calculations or tests.

At the time it was demonstrated convincingly by Martin Sadler and the then MD taking one out into the bay opening the seacocks and then sailing and motoring back into Poole down the Swash Channel.

Not sure it was a huge selling point. How many small yachts pootling around the UK carry a liferaft, or more pertinently have ever actually needed one?

 

[Mark-1]

At the time it was demonstrated convincingly by Martin Sadler and the then MD taking one out into the bay opening the seacocks and then sailing and motoring back into Poole down the Swash Channel.

That's good enough for me.

 

[Benjamin78]

Some experience of both the 25 and 26. I made my first long channel crossing crewing a fin keel 25 many years ago. Pin sharp handling, goes where she points and ( having a skeg ) tracks very well. I would avoid spade rudders for singlehanding unless you want to race. Stowage is fine and you will be generally sailing with dry decks
Most have a linear galley which I personally don't like but others may love, headroom is crouching style for many people. If you find one with the original cranked U bolt holding up the backstay, replace it with a beefed up item. The older I get the more I appreciate boats that can dry out, the bilge keel Sadler is said to sail very well and looking at the style of the keels you can imagine that.

I have a chum who has sailed her bilge keel 26 extensively on her own, a very comfortable boat with much better headroom but a steadier sail. As her hull is foam filled she is generally regarded as "unsinkable" so you don't need to think about liferafts and she is quiet down below with good thermal insulation.

I would have either depending on condition.

.

Interesting, cheers for sharing your thoughts Doug. I'm going to line up some viewings of the sadler 25, 26 and contessa 26...see what my gut tells me.

 

[Benjamin78]

I think ultimately whatever I go for I won't have it for more than 3-4 years, the boats main purpose will be for me to clock up the hours and experience...and being able to sail single handedly is a must because people can often be flakey and or busy when it comes to sailing...and before you know it, six weeks have passed and you've not been out on the water

 

[Stemar]

I think ultimately whatever I go for I won't have it for more than 3-4 years, the boats main purpose will be for me to clock up the hours and experience...and being able to sail single handedly is a must because people can often be flakey and or busy when it comes to sailing...and before you know it, six weeks have passed and you've not been out on the water

Big +1

A boat you can single hand is a big bonus. Being able to get out when Madame (my preferred crew skipper) wasn't available gave me some very good times on the water. Conversely, I had a friend who had a 39-footer which he couldn't manage on his own, and he was constantly on the hunt for crew.

 

[Tranona]

I think ultimately whatever I go for I won't have it for more than 3-4 years, the boats main purpose will be for me to clock up the hours and experience...and being able to sail single handedly is a must because people can often be flakey and or busy when it comes to sailing...and before you know it, six weeks have passed and you've not been out on the water

If you can get access to back numbers worth reading PBO December 2003 for an article on buying and renovating a Sadler 25 for a Round Britain project. Something that stands out is how values have changed. He bought a 25 year old Sadler for £6k (£9k in today's money) despite it having "a corroded mast, delaminated cabin sole and the cooker, outboard and all electrics needing replacement" then spent the same again on refurbishment. Compare that with what you can buy today with that sort of money.

 

[doug748]

Interesting, cheers for sharing your thoughts Doug. I'm going to line up some viewings of the sadler 25, 26 and contessa 26...see what my gut tells me.

If you do get taken with the style of the Contessa 26, I think you might have a look at this:

Marieholm 26 for sale UK, Marieholm boats for sale, Marieholm used boat sales, Marieholm Sailing Yachts For Sale Marieholme IF 26 - Apollo Duck

More headroom than the Contessa and the galley area is by a conventional hatch and sprayhood so you stand comfortably to cook. The rig is fractional, which some prefer, and the hull is based on the International Folkboat.

This particular boat has a lot going for it and the trauma around the main bulkhead might be a good haggling point, I can see it going well under asking price in the present market.

.

 

[Ardenfour]

Drying out on a lee shore doesn't sound too good. Maybe that explains all.

Especially with a fin keel...

 

[Ck2024]

I think ultimately whatever I go for I won't have it for more than 3-4 years, the boats main purpose will be for me to clock up the hours and experience...and being able to sail single handedly is a must because people can often be flakey and or busy when it comes to sailing...and before you know it, six weeks have passed and you've not been out on the water

I’m basically in the same position as you, looking for something I can sail single handed and not spend a huge amount of money on! The contessa 26 and Sadler 25/26 came up a lot in my searches too, but also the Halcyon 27 (a lot cheaper than the contessa) and Halmatic 30 (a bit more expensive).

 

[obmij]

If you can get access to back numbers worth reading PBO December 2003 for an article on buying and renovating a Sadler 25 for a Round Britain project. Something that stands out is how values have changed. He bought a 25 year old Sadler for £6k (£9k in today's money) despite it having "a corroded mast, delaminated cabin sole and the cooker, outboard and all electrics needing replacement" then spent the same again on refurbishment. Compare that with what you can buy today with that sort of money.

Actually, I don't there is a huge amount of difference in values of a 25 year old small boat. Around £15-18K for a Hunter 245 for example which I'd put as an approximate equivalent to a Sadler 25 in 2003.

Around that time (ish) I was pretty keen on the Sadler 25 - until I went to view one. It really felt small for its length. I was coming from a Hurley 22 and it didn't feel that much of a step up.

 

[doug748]

I’m basically in the same position as you, looking for something I can sail single handed and not spend a huge amount of money on! The contessa 26 and Sadler 25/26 came up a lot in my searches too, but also the Halcyon 27 (a lot cheaper than the contessa) and Halmatic 30 (a bit more expensive).

My tuppence on the issue.

Assuming your experience is limited and you intend to move on to bigger boats eventually I would not be tempted by the lower end of a bigger boat market. Better to get a top condition Cutlass 27 than a questionable Halmatic 30 or you could be joining legions of others mending old boats in the yard. I think you have the right idea in not fixing on fashionable boats.

If you mean to sail alone around the Solent, say, then it hardly matters what style of boat you pick However, when sailing further afield, lots of room below decks is of little use, though it would be nice in port, beyond a certain point it is not worth the compromise. What you do want to prioritise is:

Stability - and the consequent ability to carry sail, particularly important when over pressed. Look at ballast ratios.
Directional stability - Making the boat easy on the helm and more importantly easy on self steering gear.
Clean undersides - No thin club footed keels, twin rudders or rudders without skegs
Reliable engine - It helps if you can start it from the helm
Simple rig - No fancy trimming required. Masthead is fine you will wear out more genoas but it's nice to have some drive off the wind without setting fancy additional sails which you have to set from the deck, can't stow or afford.

As a general touchstone I would say: - Any boat described as fast or fun or having huge accommodation or huge headroom on a short waterline is best avoided.

Your next boat can always be a Figaro, the people using those boats have generally top notch safety gear, communications and backup ashore; they are not farting about mid channel in a four grand 25 foot boat on a shoestring.

.

 

[Benjamin78]

If you do get taken with the style of the Contessa 26, I think you might have a look at this:

Marieholm 26 for sale UK, Marieholm boats for sale, Marieholm used boat sales, Marieholm Sailing Yachts For Sale Marieholme IF 26 - Apollo Duck

More headroom than the Contessa and the galley area is by a conventional hatch and sprayhood so you stand comfortably to cook. The rig is fractional, which some prefer, and the hull is based on the International Folkboat.

This particular boat has a lot going for it and the trauma around the main bulkhead might be a good haggling point, I can see it going well under asking price in the present market.

.

A good looking boat... I shall have a read up. Although I'm increasingly becoming more and more settled on the Sadler 26...

 

[Ck2024]

If you do get taken with the style of the Contessa 26, I think you might have a look at this:

Marieholm 26 for sale UK, Marieholm boats for sale, Marieholm used boat sales, Marieholm Sailing Yachts For Sale Marieholme IF 26 - Apollo Duck

More headroom than the Contessa and the galley area is by a conventional hatch and sprayhood so you stand comfortably to cook. The rig is fractional, which some prefer, and the hull is based on the International Folkboat.

This particular boat has a lot going for it and the trauma around the main bulkhead might be a good haggling point, I can see it going well under asking price in the present market.

.

I’ve been researching the marieholm but there’s not much online. Please can you send me a message Doug, I would love to pick your brain on it, have tried to message you direct but I can’t as I’m a new member. thanks!

 

[doug748]

I’ve been researching the marieholm but there’s not much online. Please can you send me a message Doug, I would love to pick your brain on it, have tried to message you direct but I can’t as I’m a new member. thanks!

Don't think I can PM you either, till you build up a number of posts. Worth looking here:

UK IF-Boat Association

I notice there is now a UK presence based at the St Mawes club where they have raced International Folkboats for many years. The 26 is based on the IF boat but much more suitable for cruising. Just post your questions and I will see if I can help.

.

 

[Tranona]

If you fancy something a bit bigger but not a lot more money than good 26 footers this might be of interest portsmouth.boatshed.com/halmatic_30-boat-336404.html one owner largely original and unmolested apart from mostl;y good upgrades in the electronics department

 

[Buck Turgidson]

IFs command a premium in the UK. You can buy them for pennies in Sweden or Denmark. I know it doesn't help if you are UK based but just saying.
Lovely looking boats.

 

[MisterBaxter]

In my experience, if a decision is hard, it's often because the two options are very close in value, so it doesn't matter that much which one you pick. The harder the decision, the easier it is, in a strange way.
In this case, I wouldn't worry about which design too much, just find a good individual example at good price, snap it up and go sailing.
For me personally, a good example would be clean, dry and simple inside, with good new sails, running and standing rigging and ground tackle. Priorities may vary...