The beast bites back - bad news from the slug

[vyv_cox]

I've seen a winch cable part three times. Twice, once by sheer luck, the other time (the only time it's happened when I've been in charge of the winching) because I'd taken the necessary precautions, without injury but on the other occasion it almost removed a blokes arm above the elbow - 16 hours of surgery saved the arm but it was a close run thing

I've seen a rope hoist fail during a lifting operation. That was an almost brand new Chinese pattern copy of a Tirfor rated at 3t lifting. The rope clutch failed lifting just under 2t and dropped a steel beam 20' or so to the ground. Luckily, nobody was underneath it at the time 'cos I somehow doubt whether a hard hat would have been much use!

I've seen an engine crane collapse and drop the engine straight back into the engine bay of a Landie. Being a Landy it didn't seem to do any harm to anything but if it had been the bottom of a boat ...

Yes, accidents happen. I have been unable to walk for the past three months after a ladder collapsed under me and I fell 3 feet. Doesn't mean ladders are dangerous, or that they should not be used.

I lifted my engine out on a cable hoist, similar to the one I linked, in emergency when I was abroad. I took care with it and had no problems. No reason at all why it shouldn't be perfectly OK in this case. It only has to lift the engine from its bay into the saloon, well under a metre even if he took it into the cockpit.

Here's a similar engine being lifted out using the boom of a small boat, this time with a chain hoist.

 

[Searush]

I used my boom & mainsheet to get my MD2B in & out - twice. I supported the boom by lashing the main halliard directly above where I tied the mainsheet tackle. The load on the boom is then mainly compressive with shear adjacent to the halliard & mainsheet lashings - both easily managed stresses.

If stressed about what the ropes or your back will take, then remove the flywheel & gearbox, those two together will almost halve the weight of a Volvo MD engine. There really isn't a lot to it, but I'm sure Dylan can get some local & experienced help for a few quid to help & advise him.

 

[Bru]

Yes, accidents happen. I have been unable to walk for the past three months after a ladder collapsed under me and I fell 3 feet. Doesn't mean ladders are dangerous, or that they should not be used.

I lifted my engine out on a cable hoist, similar to the one I linked, in emergency when I was abroad. I took care with it and had no problems. No reason at all why it shouldn't be perfectly OK in this case. It only has to lift the engine from its bay into the saloon, well under a metre even if he took it into the cockpit.

Here's a similar engine being lifted out using the boom of a small boat, this time with a chain hoist.

Thought you might bite

Yep, a chain hoist indeed and a proper bit of tackle for the job. I'm not saying I wouldn;t use a ratchet cable winch in an absolute emergency if there was simply no other choice but in the UK with time to prepare for the job? No way.

Ladders ARE dangerous. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be used but it does mean that you should use the right ladder for the job, make sure it's in good order and well maintained and use it properly (and in a commercial environment only if no better method is feasible such as a scissors lift or scaff tower).

Winches are dangerous. Winches used as lifting hoists when they are not designed or rated to be used as hoists doubly so. I would far rather set up a tackle using the blocks and ropes on the boat than use a cheap ratchet winch

I am NOT saying "oooo. that's dangerous, don't do it". I AM saying "if you're going to do it, do it right and use the right kit for the job".

Less than £20 for a day to hire a 500kg chain hoist?* To me that's simply a no-brainer. Drop the engine and damage the engine bearers or worse the hull itself and it could get a whole lot more expensive than it's already shaping up to be

* Although I'd still personally favour the getting the boat ashore and using a gantry option rather than lifting the engine using the boom

 

[30boat]

I have removed and refitted Bukh engines all 220kgs of them on my own several times.Once with an chain hoist the other times with several blocks and tackles.Your engine has to be lighter.You have time so why not construct a solid timber frame over the companionway to wich a rented chain hoist is attached.The work needed for the engine mounts is fairly easy and you can do it yourself.Just look at it as several small jobs not a large intimidating one.

 

[colvic987]

This is what i have been using to remove the engine so i can get the propshaft out and cutlass bearing changed, although around 325 lbs of weight have to be careful how its lifted.
gearbox has been taken off and new propshaft made so decided i might as well go full hog and repaint the engine and replace the engine mounts whilst its all 'in the air' so to speak.

Should be back together by end of june, no sailing this year for me, so any requests for crew gladly accepted.

hoists bought for £44.95, from lifting gear avonmouth bristol.

 

[Lakesailor]

I would, however, be a tads dubious about lifting a heavy lump like the Beast using the boom on a wee boat like the Mirror Offshore. I'd want to make sure that the point of attachment of the lifting tackle was directly, or almost directly, underneath the support of the topping lift - even if that meant temporarily moving the topping lift further down the boom - and I'd make damn sure that my topping lift and forestay were in good order too

If the "Slide it into the cabin" scenario works then don't bother with boom. Just lay a baulk of timber across the cockpit seat mouldings and shackle the mainsheet to that. You only need to lift motor a few inches. Remember not to reach under it at any time.
I would use a trolley jack across the access hole supported on decent sized boards and a piece of chain shackled between the motor sling and the lifting arm (there's usually a pin across the arm)
Frankly replacing one at a time is the best option and not a huge struggle, but you seem to have worked out some reasons not to have a go.
I wouldn't be about to pay some bloke a fortune to do it. If you were on the Morecambe Bay leg of the journey I'd do it for you.7


Bugger Me! Colvicxxx has gorn and done some pics of what I suggest.

 

[ProDave]

A cautionary tale:

I know someone who had a series 1 Landrover, and he needed to take the gearbox off.

Anyone who know Landrovers knows you take the seats out, take the floor out, and there is the gearbox between the chassis legs.

It didn't look that heavy.

He removed the propshafts, undid all the bolts, then put a rope around the gearbox and over his shoulders, and proceeded to slide the gearbox off the engine.

That's when he found out how heavy it was as he followed the gearbox through the hole in the floor and onto the ground.

 

[finbarr]

Dylan, I lifted mine with a block and tackle suspended over the companionway, similar to the picture colvic987 has. My mirror has an access hatch on top of the companionway step so I can hook onto the engine and lift it. It is fairly simple to lift it off the engine mounts and leave swinging (with a second sling to back up) or swing it forward onto the floor and out of the way. If the slug doesn't have the same access hatch as mine it may be slightly more awkward as you will be pulling at an angle to the direction you want to lift.

I have partly removed it to do the engine mounts 2 years ago and I fully removed it this year for a clean up and respray both times using the block and tackle method. Give it a go I think you will be fine

 

[Searush]

A cautionary tale:

I know someone who had a series 1 Landrover, and he needed to take the gearbox off.

Anyone who know Landrovers knows you take the seats out, take the floor out, and there is the gearbox between the chassis legs.

It didn't look that heavy.

He removed the propshafts, undid all the bolts, then put a rope around the gearbox and over his shoulders, and proceeded to slide the gearbox off the engine.

That's when he found out how heavy it was as he followed the gearbox through the hole in the floor and onto the ground.

And what relevance does that scare story have with a single cyclinder Volvo engine? You can lift a Volvo monoshift gearbox with one hand. The engine flywheel is heavy & needs two hands & well braced feet & back, but one man liftable. The engine, even without flywheel & gear box is too heavy to lift but well within the limits of a simple block & tackle.

 

[colvic987]

And what relevance does that scare story have with a single cyclinder Volvo engine? You can lift a Volvo monoshift gearbox with one hand. The engine flywheel is heavy & needs two hands & well braced feet & back, but one man liftable. The engine, even without flywheel & gear box is too heavy to lift but well within the limits of a simple block & tackle.

gearbox is liftable with one hand, but not for long, (you must have been a weightlifter SR), its still a heavy bit of kit, this one below with its first primer coat, 3 more coats to go to final finish.

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Way I see it Dylan, you have a three way choice. Either you pay the man to do the job for you, you do the job yourself or you dispose of the boat.

There is something to be said for earning money doing what you do do well, but if that is not an available choice at the moment, then simple mechanicking like engine mount changes isnt beyond you. It cant be or the ex YTS trainees who work at your local garage wouldnt be able do their jobs.

I changed all my engine mounts a few months ago. To do this I supported the engine from underneath using a scissor type jack of the sort beloved to BLMC. Might not work for you buy there will be other alternative means of lifting the engine enough to get the mounts out. Even removing the engine completely is not difficult - its mostly a simple job of disconnecting things and then finding some way of maybe sliding the engine forwards.

As for the mounts, there are a number of independant firms who will supply alternative mounts for you. For example this company though there is a British one whose name escapes me for the moment.

Honestly Dylan, if you take the job slowly and use common sense ( and a camera to record what everything was like before you took it to bits) you will easily change the mounts and end up thinking what a clever chap you are.

 

[30boat]

Way I see it Dylan, you have a three way choice. Either you pay the man to do the job for you, you do the job yourself or you dispose of the boat.

There is something to be said for earning money doing what you do do well, but if that is not an available choice at the moment, then simple mechanicking like engine mount changes isnt beyond you. It cant be or the ex YTS trainees who work at your local garage wouldnt be able do their jobs.

I changed all my engine mounts a few months ago. To do this I supported the engine from underneath using a scissor type jack of the sort beloved to BLMC. Might not work for you buy there will be other alternative means of lifting the engine enough to get the mounts out. Even removing the engine completely is not difficult - its mostly a simple job of disconnecting things and then finding some way of maybe sliding the engine forwards.

As for the mounts, there are a number of independant firms who will supply alternative mounts for you. For example this company though there is a British one whose name escapes me for the moment.

Honestly Dylan, if you take the job slowly and use common sense ( and a camera to record what everything was like before you took it to bits) you will easily change the mounts and end up thinking what a clever chap you are.

That's good sensible advice.As I said before do it in small stages and think it through before you start.I'm sure this is within your capabilities.Just think of how much you won't be spending.Take a big breath and dive into it.And do film the whole thing.

 

[dylanwinter]

the mist clears a little

I have been contacted by one bloke who has done the job

same boat, same engine I hope - without pulling the volvo

I have also had a serious offer of some assistance from a bloke who has done two boat engines and has some good tools

so I am reasonably optimistic that one way or another I can avoid the £1,000.

things look a lot better now than they did 24 hours ago

thanks for all the input

any other information gratefully received

D

 

[sighmoon]

Great outcome.

It wouldn't be the last thousand you spent if you'd paid the man to do it.

 

[vyv_cox]

If the "Slide it into the cabin" scenario works then don't bother with boom. Just lay a baulk of timber across the cockpit seat mouldings and shackle the mainsheet to that. You only need to lift motor a few inches. Remember not to reach under it at any time.
I would use a trolley jack across the access hole supported on decent sized boards and a piece of chain shackled between the motor sling and the lifting arm (there's usually a pin across the arm)

When I did it I lifted the engine and gearbox no more than six inches, after removing the flywheel as others have suggested. Then slid a plank under it and lowered the engine onto an old skateboard, allowing me to roll it into the saloon. The floor and locker faces were protected with cardboard and some old carpet tiles. All the engine work was done in the saloon.

 

[ianfr]

Dylan

Will happily donate a couple of days to do grunt work if required.

Ian

 

[Searush]

When I did it I lifted the engine and gearbox no more than six inches, after removing the flywheel as others have suggested. Then slid a plank under it and lowered the engine onto an old skateboard, allowing me to roll it into the saloon. The floor and locker faces were protected with cardboard and some old carpet tiles. All the engine work was done in the saloon.

Great job, but I suspect you have a little more space in there than Dylan has!

I like the skate board & scissor jack idea. The jacks are cheap & probably readily available from scrap yards & often have a fairly long handle reach. Really pleased you have had some offers of help & I'm just sorry I'm so far away. It's actually quite good fun when you get a couple of blokes tackling a job like that with a couple of beers (and I mean just a couple!!)

 

[Lakesailor]

All the engine work was done in the saloon.

Following along the grand tradition of mending your motorbike in your mum's kitchen.

 

[30boat]

Following along the grand tradition of mending your motorbike in your mum's kitchen.

Ah,the memories.I once stuck my Tridents gearbox case in my mum's oven so I could replace the bearings.She was away that day.

 

[TopDonkey]

I would have thought 2 people could lift and move the engine out of the way once it was all disconnected ?, much easier than messing around with hoists and straps and other lifting gear, just get a decently thick bit of wood to rest the engine on a few feet away from the area and you can work on it at your own pace then without worrying about hire costs and craning costs running up.

I bought a complete perkins 4107 engine a few weeks ago as a spare for my boat and me and my brother picked that up from the sellers garage and carried it out to my van and put it in without too much trouble, then at the other end, we lifted it out and put it on a pallet, so lifting your engine shouldnt be an issue really i wouldnt have thought ?