The Ady Gil: Who was in the wrong

[grumpy_o_g]

I understand during the last 'Cod War' in the mid 1970's, the Royal Navy sent many warships to do battle with the Icelandic fishing boats. During this time many ships were rammed, lots of injuries and 5 deaths.

These wars went on for more than 15 years

How many Colregs were contravened in the North Atlantic during that period?

Is it because the unqualified rabble in the Southern Ocean are merely whale-huggers and not the RN, that attracts the main criticism?

I could be wrong...........but I'm starting to sense a double standard!

I understand your sentiments but at least I had a chance to vote for or against the government that was sending those warships, actually 3 or 4 chances during the "conflict", however flawed the democratic process may be. Remember that, during that time, Icelandic vessels were harassing British vessels too (this was back when we had a decent fishing fleet) and this was a dis-agreement between two countries whose people perceived an immediate threat to their livelihood.

Had Richard Branson bought Bladerunner for an extremist UK subject (with an even bigger ego and thirst for publicity than some MP's) to go a create confrontation with Icelandic deep sea trawlers I'm not sure I would have agreed with it at all.

At the end of the day I would not place any credence on any evidence presented by either party and, in the absence of any serious injury or death, I'm sure the courts will simply ignore the whole thing - I'm not sure what court would hear it anyway - would need to be one that both parties recognised and who would abide by the findings and I can't see that happening.

I can't help but feel that $1MM plus all the running costs would have been far more effective if used by a professional lobbyist, but extremists like this are usually looking for a cause to justify their behaviour. One can be thankful they didn't become serious terrorists at least.

Sadly I doubt that this has actually helped to change Japanese behaviour one bit.

 

[webcraft]

I can't help but feel that $1MM plus all the running costs would have been far more effective if used by a professional lobbyist, but extremists like this are usually looking for a cause to justify their behaviour. One can be thankful they didn't become serious terrorists at least.

Sadly I doubt that this has actually helped to change Japanese behaviour one bit.

The Japanese pay not one iota of attention to professional lobbyists. However, they themselves admit that Sea Shepherd have been instrumental in them being unable to fulfil their quota in both 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 (see quotes above with sources in a previous post of mine). So - Sea Shepherd have definitely saved a large number of whales - in the hundreds. Japanese whaling is illegal (see here to find out why) and the idea that the Japanese will listen to some paid lobbyists is absurd.

Good on Sea Shepherd I say. If Paul Watson is a nutter - and by some definitions he is - then maybe this planet needs a few more nutters like him.

- W

 

[Cruiser2B]

Hmm. I thought there was a moratorium on commercial whaling? Which is why the Japanese are not doing commercial whaling. They are doing "research" on whales by killing 1000 of them per year and then eating them. I have nothing against whaling or eating whales, or burning them in lamps, or whatever else man has used them for over the ages. But in my opinion, the act of killing endangered animals is immoral. And if the IWC had actually been successful in doing their job, which is to manage the whaling industry, there would still be viable populations of whales and we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

The moratorium was put in place by the IWC (International WHALING Commission), whose function as you may guess from the name, is the management of whale stocks for the very purpose of whaling. They allow all sorts of groups to conduct whale hunts each year, and also are the ones who made the research loopholes the Japanese are now exploiting. AKAIK, the IWC doesn't have any real power or ability to punish abusers; and its treaties are in effect nothing more than "gentleman's agreements". FWIW, I don't believe the whales being hunted are "endangered" whatever the criteria for being endangered is, but I'm curious as to what you think is a viable population?

Whaling in Australian territorial waters is Illegal, Antartic component included!

Well first of all, not that many countries recognize Australia's claim, or any of the other claims. That notwithstanding, Australia did sign the Antarctic Treaties of 1961, which make all of Antarctic territory, waters included available for scientific research. Since the Japanese are whaling under the guise of research, it's legal.

 

[AndieMac]

and this was a dis-agreement between two countries whose people perceived an immediate threat to their livelihood.

Sadly I doubt that this has actually helped to change Japanese behaviour one bit.

This issue has been running for a while on these forums, and I had mentioned previously our vast coastal communties reliance on a healthy whale population, during their migration period.
The communities between Eden (Victoria) and the Whitsundays (Far North Queensland) and all ports in between rely quite heavily on frequent whale presence, for whale watching cruises, in fact these creatures have become quite iconic to our coastal regions.

So yes, we need their commercial value, preferably alive.

Many in this country feel our government is doing little to nothing at all, to stop this issue, so frustration is high amongst our community, regardless of which party you vote for.

I can't quite help feeling that as the Icelandic territorial waters boundry was being expanded, the concern about fishing stocks may not have been the only issue......

 

[AndieMac]

Since the Japanese are whaling under the guise of research, it's legal.

They can guise anyway they like....... I'm sure the Icelandic government did as well all those decades ago.

Its not legal as far as we are concerned, so guess that is our guise.....

 

[Cruiser2B]

Good on Sea Shepherd I say. If Paul Watson is a nutter - and by some definitions he is - then maybe this planet needs a few more nutters like him.

- W

He has stated that the human population must be drastically reduced, and that only a small percentage are suitable for stewardship of the earth - sounds a lot like Hitler. The planet does not need any more nutters like him.

Want Greenpeace's take? - http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/paul-watson-sea-shepherd-and

 

[jamesjermain]

Hmmm! Assisted suicide anyone?

 

[bitman]

just looking at the details web site and opened that quicktime of the cockpit...

no wonder as if you sit behind the wheel you see almost nothing and with no rudders behind the props you will need speed to steer that vessel... no wash over the rudders.

it's like the bennie i was sailing with twin rudders...

astern was the best option, but i wasn't there on the wheel.

 

[Cruiser2B]

They can guise anyway they like....... I'm sure the Icelandic government did as well all those decades ago.

Its not legal as far as we are concerned, so guess that is our guise.....

Do you have a clue about what you are talking about? I'm not sure what point you are trying to make about Iceland, but you should probably research the Icelandic cod wars before you reference them. If you're now saying that it's wrong that Iceland defended its unilaterally-declared territorial waters, it hardly supports your argument for Australia to defend its unilaterally-declared territorial waters.

Are you using the royal "we" or do you speak for the Government of Australia? What are you doing about this supposedly illegal act then?

 

[KevB]

I don't believe the whaler was actively whaling at the time so what was the AG aiming to achieve by their badly mis judged close quarters manoeuvre? Exactly what happened is exactly what they wanted.

No brainer, the AG accelerated into the path of the whaler. If you see it differently you need either your eyes or impartiality tested.

The Ady Gil was at least 10mtrs clear of the bow of the whaler as it was going past, just look at the video from the whaler to see the bow mounted water cannon from the whaler was shooting at right angles at the AG. The AG then accelerated into the bows of the whaler.

The bows of the whaler and that of the AG were almost level with 10mtrs clear water between them. Impossible for the whaler to turn into the AG, easy for the AG to accelerate into the whalers path.

Whether the pilot of the AG did it deliberately is another question...

 

[Major Catastrophe]

I don't believe the whaler was actively whaling at the time so what was the AG aiming to achieve by their badly mis judged close quarters manoeuvre?

As has been pointed out a couple of times on this thread, during this particular season the Shonan Maru 2 is acting as a 'security ship' and is not equipped to hunt whales.

It is a 'whaler' but is not actually 'whaling'.

 

[KevB]

As has been pointed out a couple of times on this thread, during this particular season the Shonan Maru 2 is acting as a 'security ship' and is not equipped to hunt whales.

It is a 'whaler' but is not actually 'whaling'.

Even more absurd the AG would want to tussle with it?

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Even more absurd the AG would want to tussle with it?

But that is why the entire episode is so bizarre. The crew of the Ady Gil was relaxing on the top of it whilst dead in the water and in the background you can see the Shonan Maru 2 bearing down on them at full chat with LRAD sounding.

The next thing is they collide. Whatever you think about the slow forward momentum of the Ady Gil at the last moment, it was the Shonan Maru 2 that instigated the collision and set it up from nearly a mile away.

The Video

We have had 'experts' on here saying it was the Ady Gil's fault but none of them mention that the Shonan Maru 2 bore down on the them at full speed. I still can't see that the Ady Gil crew lay in wait hoping a Jap ship would charge over to them and complete the bid for worldwide publicity.

 

[KevB]

We have had 'experts' on here saying it was the Ady Gil's fault but none of them mention that the Shonan Maru 2 bore down on the them at full speed

No one is saying that cause it didn't happen. As my posted pics show the Shonan Maru 2 was passing a good 10mtrs clear until the AD accelerated into it's path. Look at the pics.
Their bows were level, for the Shonan Maru 2 to hit the AG it would have had to turn almost at right angles and even with my lack of knowledge of whalers I know it couldn't do that. The pilot of the AG was incompetent, made the wrong decision which resulted in the collision.

 

[bbg]

I see it slightly differently, Major. First, the background is important. As everyone knows, the Sea Shepherd Society was specifically there to interfere with the Japanese. SSS was there to disrupt the Japanese activities, and to do so by intentionally interfering with the operation of the Japanese ships - by blocking, ramming and disabling them. Google "Sea Shepherd Ramming" and you will find a lot of videos of Sea Shepherd ships intentionally ramming Japanese whaling ships.

So that is the background.

As I see it, the SM2 intended to take some active measures of their own, to disrupt the protesters. It seems to me that they intended to make a very close pass of the AG, and hose them down with water. The AG - for whatever reason - accelerated in the final few seconds underneath the bows of the SM2.

I question the applicability of Colregs in a situation where one side (SSS) has shown that it has a complete disregard for Colregs. It certainly would be hypcritical of SSS and their defenders to rely on Colregs in order to apportion blame, when they intentionally ignore them themselves.

But, FWIW, I suspect if it came to court, both sides would be apportioned blame. The video doesn't start early enought to show it, but it is possible that AG specifically put themselves in the path of SM2 before stopping. SM2 would be partly to blame for intentionally creating a close counters situation, and failing to give way to a vessel on starboard. AG for failing to do everything they could to avoid a collision. Seriously, how many of us, sitting at the controls of a boat like that and seeing a big lump of steel bearing down on us, would just sit and do nothing?

 

[grumpy_o_g]

The Japanese pay not one iota of attention to professional lobbyists. However, they themselves admit that Sea Shepherd have been instrumental in them being unable to fulfil their quota in both 2007-2008 and 2008-2009 (see quotes above with sources in a previous post of mine). So - Sea Shepherd have definitely saved a large number of whales - in the hundreds. Japanese whaling is illegal (see here to find out why) and the idea that the Japanese will listen to some paid lobbyists is absurd.

Good on Sea Shepherd I say. If Paul Watson is a nutter - and by some definitions he is - then maybe this planet needs a few more nutters like him.

- W

I'm afraid this shows just how far out of touch with reality you are. The Japanese pay a huge amount of attention to profession lobbyists.

Lobbyists don't go around saying "stop killing the whales" - they work, usually in the background, using their influence to persuade Europeans to stop by Japanese cars or Americans to stop buying Japanese TV's for example. Japan is still struggling to get it's economy going after many, many years of recession and stagflation - anything that hits their exports they quite literally cannot afford to ignore.

If you want to have a Webbie World full of people like Paul Watson then please go ahead. Maybe we need to build a Golgafrincham C ark so you can all go off and find a place to start anew.

 

[TradewindSailor]

just looking at the details web site and opened that quicktime of the cockpit...

no wonder as if you sit behind the wheel you see almost nothing and with no rudders behind the props you will need speed to steer that vessel... no wash over the rudders.

it's like the bennie i was sailing with twin rudders...

astern was the best option, but i wasn't there on the wheel.

Once again : No speed required to turn the Ady Gil.

I suggest you try this: give the port engine a little forward throttle and the starboard engine about twice as much throttle astern : She'll spin like a top to starboard approximately around a longitudinal position at the mid-length of the floats.

Of course it rather depends on how much thrust you use. With 1080 hp at your disposal and those huge unguarded meat grinding props to play with ...... all on a 14 tonne light displacement boat, you could do some pretty mean acrobatics

http://sharkdivers.blogspot.com/2009/11/sea-shepherd-whale-defense-meat-grinder.html

 

[DavenHelen]

Has anyone on here actually seen the Whale Wars program. If so, you will see the seamanship of the Sea Shepard people. These are people who send off RIBs to chase whalers just before dark without checking if their radios are working.

Regarding AG, does the team think that because the AG had pulled a warp across the bow of the whaler, the whaler may have been taking avioding action.

P.S. Population of Minke whales is around the 750,000 mark.

P.P.S Most of the video comes from Sea Shepard. I would guess they release what they want to.

 

[TradewindSailor]

Just spare a thought for all the volunteers, sponsors, and workers that help build Earthrace .... and make it such a success.

Did Sea-Shepherd charter it from Earthrace or buy it? I can't get any info at the moment.

 

[Major Catastrophe]

Japanese ships - by blocking, ramming and disabling them. Google "Sea Shepherd Ramming" and you will find a lot of videos of Sea Shepherd ships intentionally ramming Japanese whaling ships.

I don't need to, I have seen just about all the Whale Wars programmes.

As I see it, the SM2 intended to take some active measures of their own, to disrupt the protesters. It seems to me that they intended to make a very close pass of the AG, and hose them down with water. The AG - for whatever reason - accelerated in the final few seconds underneath the bows of the SM2.

But they didn't 'accelerate' it was quite slow and I even think that when they appear to be still in the water, they may have been moving slowly forward at that speed.

If you have seen all the Whale Wars programmes, especially near the end of the last series, when the harpoon ships, which the Shonan Maru 2 used to be, are filmed actually chasing whales, they are extremely nimble and able to turn and back again very quickly, which I attribute to their narrow beam.