oldgit
Well-known member
Duck or Grouse ?
end of the line
end of the line
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Thames license for the Duck Punt
- Thread starter dylanwinter
- Start date
TrueBlue
Well-known member
Snap!
"We" in our wisdom (!) advised young Dylan on a course of action based on what he wrote - and he went and did something else.
Now we are getting "stick" for his seemingly poor choice.
Tut,tut.
OTOH it's all good copy and raises other issues (sorry) to which I shall return when I've read the rest of this thread and finished my coffee.
(For future references - when I put words in inverted commas it is usually to denote a tongue in-cheek-reference rather than a purely literal use. Other wise I'd have to use common parlance such as LOL or
both of which I abhor)
dylanwinter
Active member
different advice
drink the coffee,
read the thread
come back to me
I also think it is a fascinating subject
but I have not attacked anyone on this forum -
I have had some great advice from you chaps
bless you
but I was very happy to pay towards the upkeep of your river in return for using it
buyt the thought of going to find a lock-keeper every time I wanted a sail to give him the £6 wseemed like a waste of my time and his.
I ended up giving money to an organsiation that has managed to corner the market in canoe licences. They offer an unbeatable deal but it clearly hoses money away like there was no tommorrow.
take a look at the website for canoe england and also at the map of river access
http://access.canoedaysout.com/map
if they are fighting for improved access they have a pretty sorry track record
Dylan
and then tell me if they are making good use of my £37 - I am reasonably convinced that not much of it got back to your river.
Snap!
"We" in our wisdom (!) advised young Dylan on a course of action based on what he wrote - and he went and did something else.
Now we are getting "stick" for his seemingly poor choice.
Tut,tut.
OTOH it's all good copy and raises other issues (sorry) to which I shall return when I've read the rest of this thread and finished my coffee.
(For future references - when I put words in inverted commas it is usually to denote a tongue in-cheek-reference rather than a purely literal use. Other wise I'd have to use common parlance such as LOL or
drink the coffee,
read the thread
come back to me
I also think it is a fascinating subject
but I have not attacked anyone on this forum -
I have had some great advice from you chaps
bless you
but I was very happy to pay towards the upkeep of your river in return for using it
buyt the thought of going to find a lock-keeper every time I wanted a sail to give him the £6 wseemed like a waste of my time and his.
I ended up giving money to an organsiation that has managed to corner the market in canoe licences. They offer an unbeatable deal but it clearly hoses money away like there was no tommorrow.
take a look at the website for canoe england and also at the map of river access
http://access.canoedaysout.com/map
if they are fighting for improved access they have a pretty sorry track record
Dylan
and then tell me if they are making good use of my £37 - I am reasonably convinced that not much of it got back to your river.
teddington_lock
New member
You don't need to find a lock keeper every time you want to use it .
Are yoiu reading the replies selectively.
Buy an Annual Unpowered Licence for £32 and you need never approach a lock keeper and 'waste his time' again. It's much better value too.
More fool you for giving your hard earned to an organisation that is only loosely affliated to the upkeep of the Thames instead of the navigation authority ( who would have used your kind payment to maintain the river Thames )
Sorry , but it seems that whatever happens , you will never be happy.
Are yoiu reading the replies selectively.
Buy an Annual Unpowered Licence for £32 and you need never approach a lock keeper and 'waste his time' again. It's much better value too.
More fool you for giving your hard earned to an organisation that is only loosely affliated to the upkeep of the Thames instead of the navigation authority ( who would have used your kind payment to maintain the river Thames )
Sorry , but it seems that whatever happens , you will never be happy.
oldgit
Well-known member
"but it seems that whatever happens , you will never be happy."
Bit harsh that....
The slugs owner is probably one of ye most laid back olde sailor
on the fori...........
Unless of course you happen to have a whizzy gin palace of some description
Bit harsh that....
The slugs owner is probably one of ye most laid back olde sailor
on the fori...........
Unless of course you happen to have a whizzy gin palace of some description
dylanwinter
Active member
let me attempt to explain
Let me try to explain
The BCU has hatched a deal that allows them to offer the best deal on getting a licence available - that is good for them and possibly good for canoeists
your thames license, by comparison, is not a good deal.
It only applies to the Thames and canoeists are by nature promiscuous about where they take their boats.
I also want to take my boat on the canals - the only license I can get for that is for 30 days for £28
I expect to use my boat for more than 30 days
if I exceed the 30 days then I have to stump up another £28.
or - I can join the BCU and have a card that stops the Thames authorities, the canal authorities, the broads authorities all the other river authorities from demanding money from me
next time I will, of course, buy a waterways licence - even though it is not as good a deal as the unlimited licence from the BCU
or maybe it would be better if I took my canoe on the rivers and canals unlicensed and sent regular £5 notes to the rlevant authorities
it does seem to me that the BCU is taking money out of my pocket and squandering it on stuff that is no use to either the Thames of this particular user
if you think that is a good thing ...then I am surprised....
thanks for allowing me to rehearse the arguments - it has been incredibly useful
I remain of the opinion of the opinion that Canoe England the BCU are wasteful organisations that have managed to get permission to collect licence fees from water users
You really should take a look at their publications, guffery and policies
they make the EA look slick and focussed
Dylan
Let me try to explain
The BCU has hatched a deal that allows them to offer the best deal on getting a licence available - that is good for them and possibly good for canoeists
your thames license, by comparison, is not a good deal.
It only applies to the Thames and canoeists are by nature promiscuous about where they take their boats.
I also want to take my boat on the canals - the only license I can get for that is for 30 days for £28
I expect to use my boat for more than 30 days
if I exceed the 30 days then I have to stump up another £28.
or - I can join the BCU and have a card that stops the Thames authorities, the canal authorities, the broads authorities all the other river authorities from demanding money from me
next time I will, of course, buy a waterways licence - even though it is not as good a deal as the unlimited licence from the BCU
or maybe it would be better if I took my canoe on the rivers and canals unlicensed and sent regular £5 notes to the rlevant authorities
it does seem to me that the BCU is taking money out of my pocket and squandering it on stuff that is no use to either the Thames of this particular user
if you think that is a good thing ...then I am surprised....
thanks for allowing me to rehearse the arguments - it has been incredibly useful
I remain of the opinion of the opinion that Canoe England the BCU are wasteful organisations that have managed to get permission to collect licence fees from water users
You really should take a look at their publications, guffery and policies
they make the EA look slick and focussed
Dylan
T
timbartlett
Guest
Manoeuvred ? How?
You CHOSE to join a club because you wanted one of its membership perks.
I'm sure no-one prevented you from buying licences from BW and the EA.
PS -- Why double-posting?
Not getting the sympathy you wanted here, so you thought you'd try it in Scuttlebut?or vice versa? The facts are the same!
Chris_d
Well-known member
I'm not sure what the problem is, you joined an organisation setup to support kayakers, one of the benefits is they have done a great deal to allow them to use all the rivers and waterways, well done BCU.
So they send you their club magazine, thats fairly normal for such organisations as most people seem to think they are entilted to get something for their money. I'm also a member of the RNLI and for £5 a month I get half a rainforest a year through the letterbox which all goes straight in the recycling, unfortunately this is the way of the world which is the whole point of going boating to escape it, hopefully
So they send you their club magazine, thats fairly normal for such organisations as most people seem to think they are entilted to get something for their money. I'm also a member of the RNLI and for £5 a month I get half a rainforest a year through the letterbox which all goes straight in the recycling, unfortunately this is the way of the world which is the whole point of going boating to escape it, hopefully
T
timbartlett
Guest
Shock !! Horror !!
The British Canoe Union has done a deal that is good for canoeists !!
Whatever next ??
boatone
Well-known member
How does a Duck Punt qualify as a Canoe?
dylanwinter
Active member
unfair
I did post it over there first
no-one picked it up
not after sympathy at all - from a forum - really
and since I had asked you chaps ibn the first place I thought I would post it here
and I have answered the same questions here - just trying to be nice
you did pick it up
well done
but the BCU and canal England are not clubs they are licencing authorities
that is how they make their money - that is why people join them - to get the orange tag
--------------
"I'm not sure what the problem is, you joined an organisation setup to support kayakers, one of the benefits is they have done a great deal to allow them to use all the rivers and waterways, well done BCU.
So they send you their club magazine, thats fairly normal for such organisations as most people seem to think they are entilted to get something for their money. I'm also a member of the RNLI and for £5 a month I get half a rainforest a year through the letterbox which all goes straight in the recycling, unfortunately this is the way of the world which is the whole point of going boating to escape it, hopefully "
But they have made almost no progress on increasing access - to some extent as a licensing authority they are doing exactly the opposite - charging people for access. , The RYA are not a licensing authority - Canoe England is.
"Shock !! Horror !!
The British Canoe Union has done a deal that is good for canoeists !!
Whatever next ?? "
it is good for canoeings who are rich enough to pay the £37 - but bad for access and bad for the unemployed.
"How does a Duck Punt qualify as a Canoe? "
good question - although it is shaped like a canoe, looks like a canoe, travels around on top of a car like a canoe, is paddled like a canue with a single paddle
iot happens to sail like a little witch as well. I am not sure that being able to sail both up and down wind should exlude it from being a canoe
but there is a chance that I might get throwhn out of Canoe England - but all they want from me is my £37
It really is not the money I am concerned about it is the wastage of the money
for those who want to look in more detail at the stuff they sent I have added a few scans here
http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/blogs/duck-punt-license-guff-feb-09/
it really is the most useless stuff - environmental advice that fall into the category of blindingly obvious, an editorial about what a lovely warm winter we are having and a sheet of advertising offering me an eye examination for £10, a rowing machine, a magazine called outdoor adventure guide, sports nutrition
really chaps....
and these people are hoovering up resources that should be going into looking after our rivers and waterways.
I did post it over there first
no-one picked it up
not after sympathy at all - from a forum - really
and since I had asked you chaps ibn the first place I thought I would post it here
and I have answered the same questions here - just trying to be nice
you did pick it up
well done
but the BCU and canal England are not clubs they are licencing authorities
that is how they make their money - that is why people join them - to get the orange tag
--------------
"I'm not sure what the problem is, you joined an organisation setup to support kayakers, one of the benefits is they have done a great deal to allow them to use all the rivers and waterways, well done BCU.
So they send you their club magazine, thats fairly normal for such organisations as most people seem to think they are entilted to get something for their money. I'm also a member of the RNLI and for £5 a month I get half a rainforest a year through the letterbox which all goes straight in the recycling, unfortunately this is the way of the world which is the whole point of going boating to escape it, hopefully "
But they have made almost no progress on increasing access - to some extent as a licensing authority they are doing exactly the opposite - charging people for access. , The RYA are not a licensing authority - Canoe England is.
"Shock !! Horror !!
The British Canoe Union has done a deal that is good for canoeists !!
Whatever next ?? "
it is good for canoeings who are rich enough to pay the £37 - but bad for access and bad for the unemployed.
"How does a Duck Punt qualify as a Canoe? "
good question - although it is shaped like a canoe, looks like a canoe, travels around on top of a car like a canoe, is paddled like a canue with a single paddle
iot happens to sail like a little witch as well. I am not sure that being able to sail both up and down wind should exlude it from being a canoe
but there is a chance that I might get throwhn out of Canoe England - but all they want from me is my £37
It really is not the money I am concerned about it is the wastage of the money
for those who want to look in more detail at the stuff they sent I have added a few scans here
http://www.keepturningleft.co.uk/blogs/duck-punt-license-guff-feb-09/
it really is the most useless stuff - environmental advice that fall into the category of blindingly obvious, an editorial about what a lovely warm winter we are having and a sheet of advertising offering me an eye examination for £10, a rowing machine, a magazine called outdoor adventure guide, sports nutrition
really chaps....
and these people are hoovering up resources that should be going into looking after our rivers and waterways.
jecuk
Member
I have a paddle on my boat. Just because it also has a an engine and weight 13 tons - looks like a duck, sounds like a duck. I would take £37 in a heartbeat.
But Dylan is only wondering about the idea of Canoe people issuing their own licences and not spending money on river. Fair enough. I don't think he is complaining about the advice here.
But Dylan is only wondering about the idea of Canoe people issuing their own licences and not spending money on river. Fair enough. I don't think he is complaining about the advice here.
Ramage
Active member
BCU / Canoe England is much more than a licencing authority. It is the training organisation for Paddlesports, and as such validates Coaching qualifications for coaches and runs the star scheme to develop paddling skills.
It also has arranged a licensing scheme for many waterways, which is the reason you joined.
My wife and son are BCU Level1 coaches and both hold 3 star awards. Our Canoe England membership covers our kayaks on a range of waterways, and we have our Kayaks insured through them.
It is a shame the RYA membership does not offer such good value. Unfortunately their magazine is dominated by sailing clubs and has precious little of relevance to powered craft, and virtually nothing about Inland Waterways.
I look forward to some footage of you paddling your Duck Punt. The footage of you sailing it was excellent!
It also has arranged a licensing scheme for many waterways, which is the reason you joined.
My wife and son are BCU Level1 coaches and both hold 3 star awards. Our Canoe England membership covers our kayaks on a range of waterways, and we have our Kayaks insured through them.
It is a shame the RYA membership does not offer such good value. Unfortunately their magazine is dominated by sailing clubs and has precious little of relevance to powered craft, and virtually nothing about Inland Waterways.
I look forward to some footage of you paddling your Duck Punt. The footage of you sailing it was excellent!
Ramage
Active member
BCU and ARA have an arrangement with the EA and BW. Presumably those organisations were happy with the arrangement in that they get some money without the effort of chasing for payment. Many kayakers and canoeists don't use the locks preferring Portage to waiting to share a lock with much larger craft.
We pay our 3x£37 for the BCU in addition to the £500 plus for Silver Dragon. In addition Alex pays for his rowing craft through his ARA and Rowing club memberships.
BCU wouldn't cover a 33 ft Cruiser even though we said we had plenty of paddles....
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jecuk
Member
Of course. Maybe the BCU was not really the right org for him to join - now Dylan if you can get the RYA to pay our licence fees on the river that would be a result.
boatone
Well-known member
Lots of arguments and viewpoints floating around and all over what generally amounts to petty cash sums of money in the overall order of things.
I am trying to find out how much, if any, of your £37 might actually find its way to the EA before EA Towers top slice it by 25% and pass on whatever's left to the nice people at Reading to actually contribute to the river funding. Doubt it will be very much
I am trying to find out how much, if any, of your £37 might actually find its way to the EA before EA Towers top slice it by 25% and pass on whatever's left to the nice people at Reading to actually contribute to the river funding. Doubt it will be very much
dylanwinter
Active member
I have also been trying to do that
I have been a hack for a few decades now and have found that generally if people are proud of the way they spend your money they are keen to tell you.
if they are less than proud then they make it hard to find
I have looked and failed to find it so far
but if you do find out - let me know where you saw it
and thanks to everyone for taking this seriously
as for £37 being petty cash
...... for you and me it is petty cash.... for some people £37 is a lot of money
my son's food budget at university is £22 a week
I have been looking at the costs of KTL and I have given a lot of money to the broads authority, Inland waterways, the Whitham water people and the people who run the Nene.
I am sure that these organisations are also occasionally a bit wasteful
Dylan
Dylan
Lots of arguments and viewpoints floating around and all over what generally amounts to petty cash sums of money in the overall order of things.
I am trying to find out how much, if any, of your £37 might actually find its way to the EA before EA Towers top slice it by 25% and pass on whatever's left to the nice people at Reading to actually contribute to the river funding. Doubt it will be very much
I have been a hack for a few decades now and have found that generally if people are proud of the way they spend your money they are keen to tell you.
if they are less than proud then they make it hard to find
I have looked and failed to find it so far
but if you do find out - let me know where you saw it
and thanks to everyone for taking this seriously
as for £37 being petty cash
...... for you and me it is petty cash.... for some people £37 is a lot of money
my son's food budget at university is £22 a week
I have been looking at the costs of KTL and I have given a lot of money to the broads authority, Inland waterways, the Whitham water people and the people who run the Nene.
I am sure that these organisations are also occasionally a bit wasteful
Dylan
Dylan
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boatone
Well-known member
It takes roughly £20 million a year to fund the river of which about £4 million comes from all brands of boaters. £15 million comes from the public purse which appears to be struggling to cope.
If you could somehow magic up ten thousand duck punts and by some miracle £10 of that £37 each actually reached the river that would be just £100k i.e. 0.07% towards the £15 million - as I said - petty cash
If you could somehow magic up ten thousand duck punts and by some miracle £10 of that £37 each actually reached the river that would be just £100k i.e. 0.07% towards the £15 million - as I said - petty cash
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Jon_Brown
New member
I'm confused- you join an Canoe/Kayaking organisation (it's NGB) to get a back door into a licence but them moan about the organisation that was set up in 1936 to send a team to the Berlin Olympics, the British Canoe Union (BCU).
It is the lead body for canoeing and kayaking in the UK, the licence is just a useful (to about 10% of the membership) by-product. The BCU's tag line - "Helping and Inspiring people to go canoeing” (Particularly young people hence all the Child protection/coaching remit documents.)
Really the clue is in the 'useless' magazine's title Canoe Focus.
To be fair most paddlers wouldn't be members of BCU/CE, if wasn't required to keep our coaching qualifications valid, because they are absolutely useless over the access issue on the fun white water stuff.
To us volunteer/club coaches the insurance is a necessity particularly as little Johnny disappears over that 10m Welsh waterfall...darn I should have read all those documents.
The best kayaking website – the BCU of course if you are a kayaker
Or the honest answer the best UK site is ukriversguidebook_co_uk or if you are after a slightly more touring bias Song of the paddle.
I look forward to seeing you in your punt paddling down the Upper Dart (England’s best grade 4 river - lets face it if I posted that on UKRGB we'd have 10 pages of arguements because it's full of kayakers but I may get away with it here because it isn't?)