Tell me the Truth about Baveria's

Re: Tell me the Truth about Baveria\'s

No just me being honest....I'm entitiled to my opinion, however ill informed. I just thought I'd caveat it. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif
 
Re: Tell me the Truth about Baveria\'s

We have a Bavaria 36 made in 2003. It is a superb boat. It sails much faster than a HR 36 with 2/3 of the main and foresail. It has had nothing wrong with it. We have crossed the channel 5 times - the last at an average of 8 kts in a F5. We have only covered 3750 miles in the last 3 seasons and the boat looks and behaves like new. My friends with HRs and Bens are always having remedial work done under warranty. I would much sooner have a boat like mine that is made in a semi automated plant under high quality control conditions and have the advantage myself of the reduced build cost and purchasing power of a company like Bavaria than a hand made boat (see post above). You can have 2 fully equipped Bavaria 36s for one HR36 and keep one in the Med and one at home. They will both sail rings round the HR and when the wind gets up have lovely in-mast furling to control the heel which can be used without even having to go head to wind. There is no competion. But that is my, a satisfied owner's, opinion. Incidentally, they also now preferred for the ARC because they get you there quicker.
 
Re: Tell me the Truth about

[ QUOTE ]

Not according to the people that were on board at the time. Has the case been decided in Bavaria's favour, or are you just repeating Bavaria's marketing department's official line?

[/ QUOTE ]
No I am using my own powers of reasoning.

I believed the crew's account of the event until the picture of the mast distortion was released. It is very difficult to imagine how such damage to the mast would have occurred apart from the case of rapid deceleration combined with a downward plunge of the hull where the keel hit something solid. (The masthead was undamaged).

Let's face it the circumstances point to a grounding. In a raising wind of F5 to F7 at the start of the season a fresh crew was racing in an area that required excellent navigation. In UK terms it was equivalent to organizing a night time passage race around Sark from St. Peter port with no inner distance marks except the rocks.

For the record I think Bavaria's handling of the case has been reprehensible and I would advise people not to buy a yacht from such a company. Trouble is all your Bavaria bashers have been focussing on the wrong issue.

The key issue is Bavaria management must have been alerted to a keel attachment design problem by late summer of 2004. Opal was already implementing its own keel reinforcement by this time and they are the largest agent in Europe. Later in the autumn Bavaria issued a recall. YET (and this is where Bavaria should face criminal charges) at the start of 2005 they shipped 20 new match 42's to the Adriatic fitted with a mixture 1, 2 and 3 keel bolt backing plates AND those original backing plates were small compared to the ones specified in the recall upgrade.
 
Re: Tell me the Truth about Baveria\'s

buy a FAst 42 - definitely the next bavaria, but they are hand made instead of mass produced. They are under 6000kg. Planing hull, yet 3 double cabins and upto 10 berths. Built in South Africa and extremely cost effective.
 
Re: depreciation

I have had my Bav42 cc for 4 years. It is a 98 boat and been very good. I just cut some holes for deck speakers adn the glass was pretty chunky. No complaints and whilst it has depreciated, an equivalent HR 42 would have cost me a stash more cash!!!

All in all a good purchase.
 
Re: depreciation

The article in PBO talked about the surveyor stopping due to the backstay being attached with a shackle. Walking along the sales pontoon at Kip you see that the vast majority of new boats waiting to go to new owners have shackles on the backstay. I also think the standing rigging looks undersized by comparison with other makes but that is just my opinion.
 
Re: Tell me the Truth about Baveria\'s

[ QUOTE ]
They will both sail rings round the HR and when the wind gets up have lovely in-mast furling to control the heel which can be used without even having to go head to wind. There is no competion. But that is my, a satisfied owner's, opinion. Incidentally, they also now preferred for the ARC because they get you there quicker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good Troll!
 
Re: Tell me the Truth about

We have a 2004 Bav44 with the triple spreader rig and lead keel. It sails well and any problems we have had have been fixed under warranty by the Australian agents. They are rigged more lightly than traditional boats so you need to reef earlier and be careful about gybing in heavy weather. But rigging size seems comparable with other production boats. I have chartered Bennys, Catalinas and Hunters and the Bav sails just as well, especially considering the standard sails are only OK. We opted for the Bav because the quality was not significantly worse than other production boats but it was significantly cheaper, especially after you added a few options. But you may have a different cost quality trade-off.
 
Re: Tell me the Truth about Baveria\'s

"It sails much faster than a HR 36 ". That really isn't much of a compliment for any boat. My bath, with the plug out and a broom for a mast and old sheet for a sail could sail faster than a HR36.
 
Re: Tell me the Truth about Baveria\'s

Ess-aitch-wun-tee! Have just coughed up £2.5k to charter a Bav 41 for the Round the Island. Could you MOBO's keep close to pick up the pieces please?

CJH
 
Re: Tell me the Truth about

[ QUOTE ]
I believed the crew's account of the event until the picture of the mast distortion was released. It is very difficult to imagine how such damage to the mast would have occurred apart from the case of rapid deceleration combined with a downward plunge of the hull where the keel hit something solid. (The masthead was undamaged).

[/ QUOTE ]
Though I imagine that being inverted for a considerable period of time, then presumably towed through the water upside down back to port might have bent the mast into strange shapes and made it rather difficult to tell whether there were any kinks occurring before the inversion.

And the chart posted on here a while back showing the place where the yacht was found didn't look to be such complicated waters, it looked fairly straightforward and the nearest reef some miles away, if I remember correctly. Do you have different information?
 
Re: Tell me the Truth about

We have probably seen the same charts and GPS traces but have come to different conclusions. I recall traces showing the fleet tacking up to the edge of fragmented offshore islets and one or two boats ducking out the other side like a JOG fleet splitting down the Large and Little Russel.

Yes the keel fell off in deeper water but this could have been preceded by grounding in the 15 minutes before.

I don't think we will ever know the truth, but customers have voted with their wallets which is the most effective wake-up call that could be delivered to Bavaria.

On a personal note I can say that a Match 35 did a transatlantic over the winter and I have made contact with an Icelandic Match 35 owner who delivered his via Germany, Scotland and Norway in some lumpy deep offshore weather.

To finally put my mind at rest last month I arranged a keel specific survey with the most respected surveyor on the UK South Coast. During the internal inspection he was reassured by the substantial internal structures and bonding but the acid test was the controlled fast lowering of my boat in the travel hoist at Lymington onto the keel. The surveyor was expecting to see the hull flex inwards as say 3 tons of weight was transferred onto the keel but during two lowerings no deformation could be measured.

His final comment was "it is nice to be the barer of good news for a change".
 
Re: Tell me the Truth about

Well, we can't pre-judge the court case - let's hope that the matter's fully looked into...

But like you I think that Bavaria's handling of it was atrocious - they seemed to take a "Deny everything, Baldrick" approach at a stage when it seemed unlikely that many facts had been properly established, and their statements didn't seem to tie in with the photos. Whether they were in the right or in the wrong, their justifications didn't seem to pass a common sense test. Maybe they were just explaining themselves badly. Hopefully time will tell.
 
Re: Tell me the Truth about Baveria\'s

Re Delf. Unfair to the Ford Focus which holds its price very well. It doesn't fall apart either. I assume the initial poster has seen that item in PBO ( or YM!) about the missing reinforcement for the backstay on a new Bav that failed its exam for charter work.
 
Re: Tell me the Truth about Baveria\'s

Maybe another car/manufacturer can be suggested as a comparison- maybe Fiat? Nah, too individual. Maybe Kia? That's more like it, but I reckon home builders and PC manufacturers will offer better names- Packard Bell! (Don't know the building trade well enough).
Perhaps Ford would be closer to something like Hunter (US). But I really don't like them either, so I am biased. Hang on, I dislike Ford too, but then I don't deny I am opinionated.
 
Re: depreciation

<<All this does not help the original poster, it is perverse that there is more independent consumer advice available to the buyer of a £30 toaster than a £100k yacht. >>
Everyone has a toaster. Lot's of people have Ford cars, but even mass production boat building is tiny, in terms of numbers.
 
Re: Tell me the Truth about Baveria\'s

Here is the truth from a very satisfied owner:

1. I purchased a new Bav 36 4 years ago and love it
2. The quality is perfectly acceptable: Selmar, Lewmar, Raymarine etc. Interior is finished to a price but works very well ( i bought a yacht not a hand crafted piece of furniture). NOTHING on the boat has broken.
3. I believe I could sell the boat for what I paid for it (looking at what other boats appear to go for). But even if I did suffer some depreciation, so what? I bought a boat to have fun with, not an investment.
4. If Bavs are as bad as some on this forum would have us believe why are thousands sold year after year? Why do so many charter companies and sailing schools choose them if they are so bad? Have you ever spoken to a disattisfied Bavaria owner - I haven't and I know many. I have purchased products in the past that have been c*** and I have happily told people - you don't hear this from Bav owners.
5. At the end of the day you buy what meets your requirements. For me the Bav is the ideal mix of cost/quality, it does everything I need it to do and IMHO ideal for what I need of it, coastal sailing & channel crossings.

My advice would be to listen to those who know rather than those who only have an opinion! Good luck with your decision.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

bluey01
Anyone want to design a folding sailing dinghy with me?
2 3 4
Replies
66
Views
2K
bluey01
bluey01
MontyMariner
Battery failure
2
Replies
20
Views
619
Refueler
Refueler

Share this page

Top