Telephone Quote

[cynthia]

Got a price on the winter service for a 2002 engine which we accepted. Now the bill has arrived at twice the original estimate. A telephone call has not resolved the problem - basically the answer was "Stop whinging and pay up.' Clearly this guy won't enjoy anymore of our custom, and we will put our complaint to him in writing and watch his reply very carefully, but has anyone any idea about our legal position?

Thanks.

 

[bob_tyler]

Was the original quote in writing?

If so was it a "Quotation" or an "Estimate"

Basically a "Quotation" is a fixed price but an "Estimate" can vary.

Perhaps a "legal eagle" (not a ship's lawyer) might like to enlarge on this.

 

[cynthia]

The service was carried out just before the boat came out of the water, and paid for. Subsequeintly we rang and asked how much it would cost for the engine to be winterised. This is when we were given a price, which we accepted. This took place over the phone, we did not sign an authorisation for the work to be carried out, so the agreement was verbal on both sides.

The result was a bill which was more than twice that agreed over the phone. Not sure if this is a quote or an estimate!

 

[david_e]

Tricky one this and depends on what your specific instructions were. Was it to fulfill a certain task ie "Winterise the engine" which is general or something more specific? If there are no extra parts etc involved then an explanation is required. If they have had to fit parts use lubricants etc to fulfill your instructions then ask yourself would you have told them not to go ahead, suspect not. Overcharging, work not being done properly etc has happened to me a more than few times already and I have only had my boat less than a year! Lesson I have learned is to double check everyones understanding in the conversation.

 

[PeterGibbs]

Hello Cynthia, again!

It 's all a question of what you agreed and what arrangement you or the supplier can prove was entered into at the outset. This is one of the tests that the courts (if appealed to) will apply - viz what was in the minds of the parties at the outset?

Secondly, an estimate is only that, not a quotation. Many people founder on this. A quotation has inherent or explicit constraints - valid for period of time, conditions of access etc. An estimate is just a guess, in practice.

If you feel work has been done that you did not authorise you are within your rights to challenge a charge, but if you have received benefit (albeit at a higher price than you originally thought likely) the supplier is in a position to argue you should pay.

In practice, if you pay what you expected, and make some adjustment for the added value (if that is what the supplier reckons you have had) he will have less grounds on which to take you to court.

I assume your vessel is outside his premises and not capable of beign seized against the invoice? You have no freedom to argue if your goods are at risk of seizure!

Life has sadly moved on from the good old days of genteel dealings. In almost every case now it pays to be absolutely specific, and in writing, as to what will be undertaken and on what terms. When work is under way it is vital to insist that the supplier contacts you for agreement to proceed beyond the original brief. This may result in additional cost or delays but then you know the extent of your liabilities.

Good luck,

PWG

 

[cynthia]

Thanks for the help. It simply rankles that once again we've been overcharged! It only seems to happen in our boating life. In future I suppose we'll have to get absolutely everything in writing. Sad.

The ultimate truth must be that a small marine business like this one is only as good as its customer list. It is now one customer short!

Thanks again.

 

[Guest]

I certainly wouldn't pay more than agreed on the phone. Yes, I'm a lawyer, so probably naturally stingy!

If there was nothing in the conversation about whether it might be more if the work turned out to be more difficult than expected, then that means the price was fixed ie. a quotation, and he can be held to it.

If he had said that the price would be higher if the work was more extensive than expected, then he might be justified in charging more, but he should have told you as he was doing it that the price would be higher, and he has to show you what was more complicated than expected.

Winterising the engine should, I would expect, be a relatively routine task that is unlikely to involve unexpected difficulties, so he should not be justified in charging more in any event.

The problem of course is proving it. But you are the one in the strong position since you have the money, and he is unlikely ultimately to go to the trouble of suing you for it. The best thing is to send him a letter (get in writing ASAP your reasons for not paying the full amount, and sound as reasonable as possible) enclosing a cheque for the amount agreed on the telephone. Decribe in your letter in a clear and detailed manner your telephone conversation, and keep a copy of the letter. There is no need to pay him any more.

If you did want to get evidence to support the telephone conversation, try ringing round to get quotes from other engineers. If others quote about half what he is charging, that is very good evidence. And get those quotes at least in writing!

 

[claymore]

The boatyard where we keep out boat has a list of charges and details the work entailed - rather like we see in garages for car servicing. Winterising the engine isn't much of a job and a 2002 enging really shouldn't need a lot of work doing beyond flushing, draining, oil and filter change, belts checked/replaced and head checked if it hasn't been done already. Half a day max - if it comes to much more than that then a) it would have been nice to be told mid-way through the job if he had found a major snag or b) tell him to shove his bill where the sun don't shine and pay what was originally agreed on the basis that that was the amount you budgeted for, you thought it was reasonable and so you authorised the work and have a conversation with trading standards who may well help you. Finally - don't forget to mention that you work for the inland revenue!
regards
John S
PS get a written detail of the work that has been done.

 

[claymore]

Tried to edit my previous post but was time expired so couldn't.
For enging read engine and the bit about the 2002 not needing much really should have said if the engine has been regularly serviced it shouldn't need much. My post reads as if the engine was new in 2002 which would be quite difficult, it only being late Jan now!
regards
JS

 

[rogerroger]

Any work I do for clients (Internet / IT / consulting stuff) I always try to give a firm quote. Sometimes it turns out to be more than I bargained for so either...

a) swallow hard and do it for the original quote

b) inform them and re-negogiate the price.

If I suddenly charged a client double without even telling them I'd expect to be told to stick it and certainly wouldn't expect any more business from them.

For work I need done on the boat I always ask for the "best guess" of costs and the worst case scenario - I always insist on being notified if the work is going to be more than the "best guess" estimate.

In your instance I wouldn't pay - but if they have your boat in their boatyard it might be difficult!

Roger Holden
www.first-magnitude.co.uk