teleflex to hydraulic steering VP DP-E

[simonfraser]

any one made the change ?
annoying slack in the teleflex, which one would not accept in a car
any pros or cons ?

can the existing hydraulic ram (currently being controlled by teleflex) be used for this ?

 

[petem]

any one made the change ?
annoying slack in the teleflex, which one would not accept in a car
any pros or cons ?

can the existing hydraulic ram (currently being controlled by teleflex) be used for this ?

Isn't the slack in the unit behind the steering wheel?

 

[scottie]

As I remember you require both a pump (helm) and operating ram which attaches in place of steering cable whether or not there is additional parts required I am not sure

 

[simonfraser]

Isn't the slack in the unit behind the steering wheel?

Indeed that could be the Q
So do we replace the unit behind the dash and possibly the teleflex ?
replacing the teleflex will be a task, that's the issue, go for hydraulics straight away ?

 

[Scarron]

Yes, I have done it with a DPD1 [same transom shield] I used an Ultraflex hydraulic helm and ram from Aquafax it was this one from memory - Cylinder

I mounted it on a glassed on block on the inside of the transom so that it is parallel to the transom when the tiller arm is midships. then I chose one of their helm units, can't remember which, based on the volume of oil displaced to get a sensible number of turns lock to lock. Its purely manual, no power assistance.

Works very well, reasonable feel, no slop like a push pull telefax cable.

I am single engined, but no reason twins with a tie bar between the tiller arms would be any different.

 

[simonfraser]

tnx Scarron, excellent no slop, annoying and one would not accept a car like that

just found this
SeaStar Solutions
that would do the job well too i recon

 

[tico]

Did it several years ago when I re-engined a Sunfury as the existing Teleflex setup would not fit.
Steering pump unit (Vetus) and cylinder from Aquafax.
Had to make a special link bar for the two outdrives and a solid mounting for the other end of the cylinder.
Then used nylon hose for the piping.
All worked perfectly and a great improvement on the Teleflex.
One point - if you use nylon hose, then make sure to use the special olives that 'dig in' to the hose, otherwise the joints can blow out under pressure and deposit all your hydraulic oil on the floor - dont ask how I know.

 

[joae]

I am thinking of the same solution for my twin DP-E with rack and pinion type of steering cable.
One thing to note is the added need for at rudder indicator (mine is today integrated in the steering wheel) and the fact that no hydraulic steering I have tested is free of backlash. So the solution is probably better but not as good as a car steering.

Another thought is if it is necessary to keep the servo pump?

 

[simonfraser]

Did it several years ago when I re-engined a Sunfury as the existing Teleflex setup would not fit.
Steering pump unit (Vetus) and cylinder from Aquafax.
Had to make a special link bar for the two outdrives and a solid mounting for the other end of the cylinder.
Then used nylon hose for the piping.
All worked perfectly and a great improvement on the Teleflex.
One point - if you use nylon hose, then make sure to use the special olives that 'dig in' to the hose, otherwise the joints can blow out under pressure and deposit all your hydraulic oil on the floor - dont ask how I know.

tnx Tico, what is the best hose type to use for steering accuracy and durability ?

 

[scottie]

tnx Tico, what is the best hose type to use for steering accuracy and durability ?

Nylon is not as good as proper rubber hydraulic hoses made to measure

 

[simonfraser]

Nylon is not as good as proper rubber hydraulic hoses made to measure

tnx, simple conclusion

 

[scottie]

tnx Scarron, excellent no slop, annoying and one would not accept a car like that

just found this
SeaStar Solutions
that would do the job well too i recon

It looks about right size but better to get one that the cylinder actually replicates the cable end

 

[simonfraser]

tnx Scottie
yes may well get a changed cylinder and remove the existing drive altogether
not one of my choosen 'fun' jobs so the local mechanic is going to do the spec and the job
he seems to know what he is doing, but i am checking here for advise !

 

[scottie]

Worth speaking with a VP dealer who may have a parts person who knows what you would require

I used to keep copies of the old accessories catalogs when I was a dealer as it was the easiest reference as Volvo did concentrate on current models

 

[simonfraser]

Worth speaking with a VP dealer who may have a parts person who knows what you would require

I used to keep copies of the old accessories catalogs when I was a dealer as it was the easiest reference as Volvo did concentrate on current models

tnx, yes its a VP service dealer who is looking into this

not planning on an autopilot, but looks like they just T in ?
be worth fitting the T's and just capping them off, or pointless ?

 

[scottie]

tnx, yes its a VP service dealer who is looking into this

not planning on an autopilot, but looks like they just T in ?
be worth fitting the T's and just capping them off, or pointless ?

Don’t complicate it but wait until until you know which autopilot ?

 

[Scarron]

Yes, you are on the right track here, Seastar do a specific kit for sterndrives your DPE would be the same mechanically as a 290 outdrive.

As far as hoses go, yes go for a specifically made up pair of hydraulic hose with swaged on fittings, makes for much less messing about with banjos and spilled hydraulic fluid. Plus rubber is les stiff and wil go a round smaller bend radius, useful inside the helm console etc.

As there is no power assistance then three things to note in order to reduce steering weight, first the lighter the weight oil you use the better; I use ultra light weight bicycle shock absorber oil, it's less viscous. Secondly don't be tempted to go for micro bore hoses as again that adds drag to the the fluid, go one size up on bore and it will reduce friction / steering weight. And finally 90 degree hose fittings on and off the helm pump and ram are a no-no, they add massively to friction in the fluid - use formed swept bend fittings if you just can't find the space to gently bend the hoses.

 

[DougOut]

This is of interest to me as well. My boat is cable steering with power assistance which manages to be notchy around the dead ahead position but is also slack. Having read through this I think converting to hydraulic may be a solution which could make fitting an autopilot easier as well.
I've spent a bit of time on the SeaStar website, this could be just what I'm looking for. Seastar are now part of Dometic but I can't find if there are any dealers familiar with the system. Has anyone any experience of them or know anyone that is?

 

[spannerman]

Will try to answer a few questions having installed nearly every type of hydraulic steering and autopilot. You currently have cable with servo assistance from your description, in which case you use a dedicated hydraulic cylinder which screws on to your present servo cylinder(ram) where the cable is now. This new cylinder is hand powered by the new helm pump and when you turn the wheel as soon as the new cylinder moves it operates the shuttle valve on the present servo cylinder which then adds assistance making the steering light. You can easily add an autopilot at any time by using T pieces which may be worth fitting with blanked off ports until you fit an AP. Volvo fit T pieces as standard on the later DPH drive steering as standard.
Don’t worry about 90 degree bends on the steering as every major steering manufacturer supplies them as standard in their kits and you will find them on just about every boat with both manual and servo assisted hydraulic steering. We fit a lot of Seastar systems on boats with big 300 hp + outboards and they absolutely don’t have heavy steering. Just use what comes in the kit and you will be fine.

 

[DougOut]

Thanks for the assist Spannerman. I own a Fairline Targa 33 powered by twin Volvo Penta AQAD41A/DP. Looking on the Seastar site it looks as though they recommend fitting separate hydraulic pumps and cylinders to each engine rather than using a tiebar. I'm not sure about that but definitely worth further investigation.