Talk me into / out of it

[Twister_Ken]

NO!

>Then after five years your yacht was refitted to fix as much of the wear and tear and damaged gear and handed back to you as 100% yours, might be a good compromise. <

Never made much sense to me - why not spend 50% of the price of a new boat now on a an older or smaller boat and get 100% use out of it immediately: rather than spending 50% now, waiting 5 years and getting what's the equivalent - in wear and tear terms - of a 25 year old boat at the end of it.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[Guest]

A view to the contrary

I agree with Allegro. You are very unlikely to get the family hooked by buying a full size yacht in British waters, so if you want to spend all your time sailing on your own, go ahead. The better option is to buy a dayboat like a Wayfarer that's fun to sail but not too scary. The kids will LOVE it, and chances are the wife will too. You can use it for camping too. Better still, buy TWO of them, so you can race each other, go on full scale family camping hols, let everyone have plenty of chance to helm etc.

Then, when you have them hooked, say in two or three years time, they are much more likely to be enthusiastic participants. As a plus, they'll be much better sailors from having learned in dinghies.

Also, as they would be used to the discomfort of a small boat, they are much more likely to be keen on getting something other than an AWB, so you'll have a wider choice of what sort of boat you'd REALLY like to buy (if that's an AWB, then fine).

In the meantime, you'll probably have more fun in the Wayfarer or whatever it is anyway


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[cardinal_mark]

Re: Half Tide Pontoon

Dave

The half tide pontoon idea sounds good - I've heard of them but have no idea how they work... presumably they dry out and require bilge / lift keel? Or would a fin be okay? This is the trouble with chartering, spend all the time in Port Hamble / Port Solent etc and dont get to see the alternatives!

Mark

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[Goodge]

Analayse what you and your family actually enjoy about sailing. Presently you and your family enjoy Sunsail holidays and chartering occasionally. This is excellent but could it be that you are enjoying the ' holiday' element of it at the moment.
It may be that your kids may want to take up another sport as they grow older and you'll find yourself at the swimming pool on Saturdays and football pitch on Sundays....not much time for sailing. Also I have known more than on wife who states ' I've done my sailing now', enjoyed it for a few years but novelty now gone and getting a little bored visiting Yarmouth every other weekend.

The dinghy option is not a bad one because you can teach your kids to sail if they want
and you can continue to charter / holiday as you wish.You haven't tied up loads of capital and you can save the money for a few years later when you don't have so many ties.


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[Sybarite]

Hi C_M and welcome to the forum.

The first comment that I need to make is that you are not likely to get an objective view here. Most of us have been bitten by the bug.

At least you are approaching the question logically so I will add a few items for reflection:-

- Is the rest of the family truly as keen as you or are you influencing them?
- Will they want to spend substantially all of their holidays on the boat and not feel that they are missing something else?

If the answers are positive this may influence your boat budget.

Next the boat :

Twister Ken and others give good advice : limit the investment on your first boat. This will take the pressure of certain decisions.

Your investment is mainly cash tied up and not a cost; you should get a substantial amount back if you sell. (My boat is quoted at something like 30% more than I paid for it after a certain number of years.)

I find that around 30' is a very good compromise. It's big enough to have standing headroom and a little bit of space so that you are not living one on top of the other yet it is not too expensive in marinas and gear replacement. One of the biggest problems on a boat is when SWMBO is feeling claustrophobic and lacking in the creature comforts.

Take a week-end at Le Crouesty end of October. It's Europe's largest second hand boat show.

Good luck and bon vent.

John






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[zefender]

Re: Buy big

I'd get the biggest boat you can afford, which will be more likely to warm the hearts and minds of less sailery family members. You would also have enough space to invite friends. If you've money left, I would go for the full blown marina since this will have shoreside facilities to make wet/orrible days bearable, while you tinker about on the boat, as you surely will. I agree with what others have said though - it's not really a right brain thing to do - of course its not the cheapest option. But buying you own boat and spending squillions on it nurtures the left, slightly bonkers side of your brain - which is probably the most important bit!

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[Koeketiene]

I faced the same choice as you 3 years ago - took the plunge, and I haven't regretted it (much) since.

Had been sailing other peoples boats for years, Yanita's our first. Hope to keep her for the near future. One thing I found is this: the difference between sailing a boat & owning a boat is HUGE! Don't under-estimate it. I went for my ideal boat straight away, at the limit (and beyond) of my financial resources. Walked into it with my eyes wide shut.

Upon reflection the advice of going for a smaller boat to see how you like ownership, seems pretty sound to me.

Re: MDL, Premier,... you don't HAVE to keep your boat in the Solent. Kept Yanita in Kent for years and were mostly happy there. Easy access to East Coast, France & Belgium, South Coast... and at a fraction of South Coast prices.

<hr width=100% size=1>Experience is a good teacher, but she sends in terrific bills.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Re: Buy big

Just to re-inforce one other point.....

Take the kids dinghy sailing, do a course with them, hire a boat, whatever it takes... My 9 yr old daughter has been sailing an Optimist for a couple of years now, and is well and truly hooked!.... and it also makes them far better sailors in a yacht... they'll understand wind direction, points of sail, and rig positions far more intuitively... and you end up with my situation.... 3 members of the family lobbying to buy a yacht, not just 1, and thats a better proposition in my mind /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

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[Peppermint]

Re: Been there done that got teeshirt

This is a can of worms.

If you enjoy your sailing now, as a family, on charter boats etc. Things you might find different on your own boat are.

Ownership. This is a responsibility that brings many hassles that someone else has fixed up for you up to now. Much of a boat owners time is spent in nasty tight spaces trying to get the thingy on the end of the doo dah while being sprayed with noxious substances or waiting for a man to relieve you of loads of money to do that for you.

Location. Boat owners tend to sail in one area, particularly if they hold down jobs, surrounding their home berth. They herd in selected areas and these herds attract preditors or the Boating Industry as it's known. They feed on your cash at a startling rate as your herd migrates from one oasis, or retail opportunity, to another.

Weather. Whichever area you chose will be subjected to biblical plagues of weather as soon as you buy into the boating dream. The wind will always blow from your destination so a good engine is essential. The annual haulout is the harbinger of an improvement in the weather until you wave a paintbrush about.

Worry. The boat owner is plagued with doubt. There's always something not quite right with most boats or crews. Often a beard and smock wearer will be found tut tutting at something on your boat and away you go into another dark despond. Clearly the answer to this is to grow a beard and wear a smock from the outset.

Size. Size does matter, the wifes letting you down lightly when she says it doesn't, and all boats are to small. Or to big. In fact all boats are both of those things at once.

The Heads. You'll have absolutely no trouble with the heads, provided you follow a simple rule. No women or children must be allowed to use them. Ever. In fact stop calling them the heads and call them the gents.

Money. Nobody has enough money to run a boat. So don't worry about it.

Social Life. Flotilla charterers and those that sail with large crews on longer trips might find the social life a bit lacking. UK marina's are chock full of people you don't want to meet and handy tavernas are thin on the ground.

Get the dayboat, stay solvent and sane, charter when you fancy a change.








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[Jeremy_W]

Go for it! But save money on MDL by keeping the yacht on a mooring. In the Solent there are Marine Services Firms who'll tow the yacht into a marina on Friday and take it back to the mooring on Monday morning.

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[Benbow]

>In the Solent there are Marine Services Firms who'll tow the yacht into a marina on Friday and take it back to the mooring on Monday morning.<

Please tell me you are joking !



I guess this undlines two truisms about yotting:

1. Everyone get something different out of it.
2. Regardless of your wealth, it will ALWAYS suck-up ALL of your spare money.

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[Jeremy_W]

>>> Please tell me you are joking !

No, honest. Before the Cherbourg trip "Bedouin" was delivered from her mooring to a boatyard pontoon next to Camper & Nicholsons. The crew (Bedouin, Aeolus IV and I) joined her there; spent the night aboard; sailed to Cherbourg and back; then left the yacht on the same pontoon. Moving the yacht himself would have cost Bedouin two extra half days' leave that he couldn't afford to take.

Sorry is this the yottie equivalent of passing off Birds Eye Chicken Pies as home-made?

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[graham]

Im not sure if I agree with the idea of buying small initially then trading up.

As you have all done a fair bit of sailing allready in chartered AWBs owning and living on a 25 footer will be a let down from the start.

Also buying and selling yachts can be a lot of stress and wasted sailing time,do you really want to do this twice in a few short years??

If you have the cash and equally importantly the families support GO FOR IT .

If you buy a popular design well known make at the right price you can allways opt out again if it doesnt work out.My bet is that once you have taken the plunge you wont want to go back to chartering.

Best of luck Graham



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[Benbow]

>Sorry is this the yottie equivalent of passing off Birds Eye Chicken Pies as home-made?<

Not at all, I wouldn't presume to criticise, everyone does things differently.

Whereas Birds Eye Chicken Pies are, in absolute terms, revolting. /forums/images/icons/smile.gif


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[Evadne]

Re: Half Tide Pontoon

Keel configuration is not the problem. Most fin keel boats will sit quite happily in the mud at somewhere like Fareham or (my boat's home) Mill Rythe, on Hayling Island. There might be a bit of leaning at first if it's a berth that's been unoccupied, which you control with the springs etc., but it doesn't take long for the tide to dig a hole and she sits there, upright. I have a swinging mooring these days but have sat in such berths many times, both in the Solent and where I learned to sail, on the East Coast, and Evadne has a traditional long keel with a draught of 4' 2" on a narrow beam.

Their main disadvantage for me is the short window when I could get in and out on the top of the tide, perhaps an hour or two at springs. A folkboat or a bilge keeler like a Centaur has a much bigger window, having nearly a foot less draught. Have a look at the types of boat in a particular location, and talk to the owners, that will give you a feel for how deep a draught you could get away with.

They also tend to be at the end of a creek, which has to be added to any voyage. The consequences of not getting in on time are an extra 12 hours at anchor, or walking home, but the end result is to improve your navigation skills and knowledge of the area. They also tend to be much more picturesque and interesting places in themselves, Chichester Harbour is all mudflats and wading birds, with the odd seal if you're lucky. Much nicer than any modern marina, IMO.

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[cardinal_mark]

Just to say many thanks to all those who posted (so far).

Your comments have been a great deal of help. I'll let you know the plan once its hatched!

Thanks again

Mark


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