Suitable Yacht for around Britain

[Searush]

On the other hand, if you have a deep draught you can cover the ground between the remaining harbours far quicker.

Your deep keel sails faster down wind too, then does it? Drying harbours or safe anchorages can be within 5-10 miles, while deep water ones may be 60 odd miles apart. I don't think a marginally quicker boat is really that much help.

No problem along much of the Channel or in Scotland where tides are not that big, but when you get 10-12m tides &/or lots of mud/ sandbanks as around the edges of the Irish Sea, Bristol Channel, Thames Estuary & East Coast then a deep keel is a real disadvantage. That's why I would NEVER buy one.

 

[flaming]

Your deep keel sails faster down wind too, then does it? Drying harbours or safe anchorages can be within 5-10 miles, while deep water ones may be 60 odd miles apart. I don't think a marginally quicker boat is really that much help.

No problem along much of the Channel or in Scotland where tides are not that big, but when you get 10-12m tides &/or lots of mud/ sandbanks as around the edges of the Irish Sea, Bristol Channel, Thames Estuary & East Coast then a deep keel is a real disadvantage. That's why I would NEVER buy one.

You may not, but plenty would, and do.

Grew up sailing on the East Coast, where my Dad had a Bilge Keeler. Over the years the boats grew and the keels reduced in number and became considerably deeper. Have also done a fair bit of sailing with some east coast friends who just sailed round the UK with a 2.5m draft.

It may not be the sort of sailing you're used to, but it doesn't make it any less fun.

 

[dt4134]

Your deep keel sails faster down wind too, then does it? Drying harbours or safe anchorages can be within 5-10 miles, while deep water ones may be 60 odd miles apart. I don't think a marginally quicker boat is really that much help.

No problem along much of the Channel or in Scotland where tides are not that big, but when you get 10-12m tides &/or lots of mud/ sandbanks as around the edges of the Irish Sea, Bristol Channel, Thames Estuary & East Coast then a deep keel is a real disadvantage. That's why I would NEVER buy one.

I quite happily cruise around the Irish Sea with 2.1m draught. 60 miles to the next harbour isn't a problem. A deep keel generally means a taller mast and the ability to carry more sail.

I'm sure you enjoy the sort of sailing you do, but it isn't the only way. There are quite a few harbours I can't overnight in, but there's always an alternative over the horizon.

 

[A1Sailor]

I PM'd the OP to ask if he was able to post replies to our questions, out of courtesy. He replied and said "How Rude"! It seems he has been too busy.

Trolling has already been mentioned

 

[oldharry]

I PM'd the OP to ask if he was able to post replies to our questions, out of courtesy. He replied and said "How Rude"! It seems he has been too busy.

So thats it then....

 

[xyachtdave]

I PM'd the OP to ask if he was able to post replies to our questions, out of courtesy. He replied and said "How Rude"! It seems he has been too busy.

Maybe time to suggest some better alternatives then?
They wanted speed......

J 80
Melges 24
Mumm 30

All ideal for a fast passage two handed and great extended liveaboard comfort.

 

[snooks]

I PM'd the OP to ask if he was able to post replies to our questions, out of courtesy. He replied and said "How Rude"! It seems he has been too busy.

Maybe they have a partner or family they would rather spend time with over the Christmas and New Year period? Maybe they were waiting for more replies, or maybe they were actually just too busy.

I don't recall reading anywhere that a reply is obligatory on this forum

Yes, it's courteous, but who made you the manners enforcer?

Besides they replied last night, but because they were a new user their post was awaiting moderation.

 

[A1Sailor]

Ok - so maybe my expectations are unrealistic!

Having sought advice, it is good to see that the OP has come back, and was able to spare time to respond to my PM - which was exceedingly decent. More pie anyone?

I await further advice from the ladies and gentlemen of the forum.

 

[Willfox]

I PM'd the OP to ask if he was able to post replies to our questions, out of courtesy. He replied and said "How Rude"! It seems he has been too busy.

What a welcome to the forum!

If you hadn't noticed, this is a particularly busy time of year for most people. Now I have had a chance and look over what the members of this forum have kindly taken their time to comment on. I actually replied last night but for some reason, it hasn't worked. At least it has given me an opportunity to review more posts.

Maybe this was a bit of a silly post originally but it has proven to be hugely useful so far with opinions about draft brought up by Searush and flaming. This is obviously a concern with more race orientated vessels. 35 feet is what they are after as they feel this would provide a reasonable amount of living space. This would give them scope for using a more race orientated vessel as a high aspect keel at this length is roughly 2 meters, a draft which dt4134 thinks would be reasonable.

My parents have been regular sailors on board a Dehler 39 SQ and Sigma 38 racing around the cans on the east coast. They have also done extensive sailing on board Beneteau / Jenneau charter yachts of all sizes. They are fit and health 55 year olds.

Flamming - Very good point about the J109's. I think you are right about the class. You obviously pay a premium for these at the moment and may prove to be more of a gamble when selling.

I don't think they would enjoy a bilge keeler. I think they are a bit to clumsy upwind. I think for them, it would come down to comfort so it would be finding a middle ground between a true cruiser racer like the J boats and a typical cruiser like a Beneteau. I do take the point posted by Beadle who suggested that the performance would be hindered by the weight of payload. This is a good point. We should do some rough calcs.

Old Harry - I get your point but this is research . I want to look into as many avenues as possible. Nothing wrong with a Rassy. V expensive and polars put us off. You are correct as well as Snooks with comfortable sailing. I think an Xc 38 would be perfect but they only came out last year....

Has anyone had any experience with Dufour 36 ot the Beneteau Oceanis 36 CC?

Just a quick reply to clyst - Have you really got nothing better to do than to be so unhelpful. Maybe a bit immature to bite but come on...I am just helping my parents out with their research. Is it really that strange?

Thanks to everyone that has taken the time to reply in a positive way. Any more suggestions of suitable vessels would be appreciated, I am writing a parametric spread sheet at the mo so I can have a good overview of suitable vessels.

Will

 

[photodog]

The Dufour 36 and the Bene are a bit bloaty...

If they would be happy to go for something along those lines then 1998-2001 Bavaria 37 would be well worth a look... as well late Bavaria 38 Oceans would be even better.. (Certainly than a Bene 36 cc....)

However if I had your criteria... I would put a late Starlight 35 at the absolute top of the list.

Quick, Seaworthy, Comfortable... and if you can get one with the wing keel then it will get into a lot more places than the fin... and not really lose out to windward.

Frankly the Starlight 35 is probably one of if not the finest Cruiser/Racers built in the past 30 years...


Second boat from that I would be tending towards... and its a bit smaller mind but not significantly.. would be a Finngulf 33 from circa 2006/7.....

Fast, fun, good looking, good space, well built...


I think its a mistake to look at price.. you should look at boat and go from there...

 

[Willfox]

The Dufour 36 and the Bene are a bit bloaty...

If they would be happy to go for something along those lines then 1998-2001 Bavaria 37 would be well worth a look... as well late Bavaria 38 Oceans would be even better.. (Certainly than a Bene 36 cc....)

However if I had your criteria... I would put a late Starlight 35 at the absolute top of the list.

Quick, Seaworthy, Comfortable... and if you can get one with the wing keel then it will get into a lot more places than the fin... and not really lose out to windward.

Frankly the Starlight 35 is probably one of if not the finest Cruiser/Racers built in the past 30 years...


Second boat from that I would be tending towards... and its a bit smaller mind but not significantly.. would be a Finngulf 33 from circa 2006/7.....

Fast, fun, good looking, good space, well built...


I think its a mistake to look at price.. you should look at boat and go from there...

Yes I think you are right.

Thanks for the suggestion. These hadn't crossed my mind

Will

 

[jonic]

Moody S38

Dufour 365

Dufour 385

Dufour 40

Beneteau 411

All a bit bigger but reasonable performance

 

[Tranona]

Yes I think you are right.

Thanks for the suggestion. These hadn't crossed my mind

Will

The desire to sail round Britain is actually a big distraction. Just about any boat can do that - as many have pointed out. It is your (or your parents') desired style of sailing/cruising that is important. If they want to make fast passages in a wide range of weather conditions - get a boat that is happy doing that. This would rule out the Benny 36cc, which would be good if the objective was to have a comfortable home from home with the ability to move from one harbour to another if required.

It seems your parents are performance orientated - so buy a boat that suits. It is not difficult to rule out those that don't - but you will still be left with a big list of potentials - all of which will have their advocates. Once you have agreed on the basic type then choice of make and model will depend on all the other criteria such as age, condition,equipment, colour of upholstery etc plus of course availability on the market at the time you want to buy.

As I said earlier, really no different from any other boat buying process. The success of the trip will depend more on the planning and execution than the choice of boat.

 

[Searush]

I'm still not convinced by the "need for speed" or upwind performance. If you are not planning to race why focus on racing criteria? Sure you can look at the winners of "Round Britain" races for inspiration, but they only call at 2-3 ports & are sailing legs of 1-2 days or so in all weathers with very strong crews. That's damned hard work for a husband & wife team; is that really the sort of sailing they want to do? Maybe it is, maybe they are both ultra macho, I have met couples happy to race across the North Sea in a gale of headwind.

However, I personally would want to visit lots of ports & meet lots of people. I would want to spend a night in as many sailing clubs as possible. I would want to ENJOY the sailing - taken in small doses & with plenty of relaxation in between. The trip would be a long holiday rather than an extended endurance event. I like the LM30, but would probably actually go for a Southerly for its more comfortable pilot house & ability to be deep keel or shallow draft depending on the current need.

It's a good job we are not all the same, but it does illiustrate the difficulty of advising others whose requirements may be so very different from one's own.

 

[flaming]

I'm still not convinced by the "need for speed" or upwind performance. If you are not planning to race why focus on racing criteria?

Because for some the pleasure of sailing a boat that really goes outweighs the disadvantages of draft etc.

 

[photodog]

Because for some the pleasure of sailing a boat that really goes outweighs the disadvantages of draft etc.

+1

If you like sailing... then you need a boat that sails well... I can't imagine anything more boring than plodding all the way aroung the UK on something which sails like a tub!



Another good boat to look at... if we are going a bit bigger... and if we take into consideration some of Searushes comments... would be a circa 2000 Sun Oddesy 40 DS...

These boats sailed REALLY well (Bizarrley some say better than the Aft Cockpit version of the same boat..) ... and with the DS they are bright and open down below... so good for those rainy days in the UK....

I also like Jonics recomendation for the Dufour 40.... thats would be very high on my list as well...

Of course a late Southerly would be good as well... but it would have to be something apre 2001 or so.... maybe the 35RS.........

 

[jordanbasset]

I'm still not convinced by the "need for speed" or upwind performance. If you are not planning to race why focus on racing criteria? Sure you can look at the winners of "Round Britain" races for inspiration, but they only call at 2-3 ports & are sailing legs of 1-2 days or so in all weathers with very strong crews. That's damned hard work for a husband & wife team; is that really the sort of sailing they want to do? Maybe it is, maybe they are both ultra macho, I have met couples happy to race across the North Sea in a gale of headwind.

However, I personally would want to visit lots of ports & meet lots of people. I would want to spend a night in as many sailing clubs as possible. I would want to ENJOY the sailing - taken in small doses & with plenty of relaxation in between. The trip would be a long holiday rather than an extended endurance event. I like the LM30, but would probably actually go for a Southerly for its more comfortable pilot house & ability to be deep keel or shallow draft depending on the current need.

It's a good job we are not all the same, but it does illiustrate the difficulty of advising others whose requirements may be so very different from one's own.

+1, that is what I would want if engaging in this, but the post does show the importance of finding out the priorities for people who want advice on a boat

 

[clyst]

What a welcome to the forum!

If you hadn't noticed, this is a particularly busy time of year for most people. Now I have had a chance and look over what the members of this forum have kindly taken their time to comment on. I actually replied last night but for some reason, it hasn't worked. At least it has given me an opportunity to review more posts.

Maybe this was a bit of a silly post originally but it has proven to be hugely useful so far with opinions about draft brought up by Searush and flaming. This is obviously a concern with more race orientated vessels. 35 feet is what they are after as they feel this would provide a reasonable amount of living space. This would give them scope for using a more race orientated vessel as a high aspect keel at this length is roughly 2 meters, a draft which dt4134 thinks would be reasonable.

My parents have been regular sailors on board a Dehler 39 SQ and Sigma 38 racing around the cans on the east coast. They have also done extensive sailing on board Beneteau / Jenneau charter yachts of all sizes. They are fit and health 55 year olds.

Flamming - Very good point about the J109's. I think you are right about the class. You obviously pay a premium for these at the moment and may prove to be more of a gamble when selling.

I don't think they would enjoy a bilge keeler. I think they are a bit to clumsy upwind. I think for them, it would come down to comfort so it would be finding a middle ground between a true cruiser racer like the J boats and a typical cruiser like a Beneteau. I do take the point posted by Beadle who suggested that the performance would be hindered by the weight of payload. This is a good point. We should do some rough calcs.

Old Harry - I get your point but this is research . I want to look into as many avenues as possible. Nothing wrong with a Rassy. V expensive and polars put us off. You are correct as well as Snooks with comfortable sailing. I think an Xc 38 would be perfect but they only came out last year....

Has anyone had any experience with Dufour 36 ot the Beneteau Oceanis 36 CC?

Just a quick reply to clyst - Have you really got nothing better to do than to be so unhelpful. Maybe a bit immature to bite but come on...I am just helping my parents out with their research. Is it really that strange?

Thanks to everyone that has taken the time to reply in a positive way. Any more suggestions of suitable vessels would be appreciated, I am writing a parametric spread sheet at the mo so I can have a good overview of suitable vessels.

Will

Just a quick reply to clyst - Have you really got nothing better to do than to be so unhelpful. Maybe a bit immature to bite but come on...I am just helping my parents out with their research. Is it really that strange

If you hadn't noticed, this is a particularly busy time of year for most people.

Yet you expected fellow formites to reply to your post .

My parents have been regular sailors on board a Dehler 39 SQ and Sigma 38 racing around the cans on the east coast. They have also done extensive sailing on board Beneteau / Jenneau charter yachts of all sizes. They are fit and health 55 year olds.

It seems that your parents are experienced sailors who would have more than enough knowlege/experience to make their own decision on a suitable yacht .
Maybe I just a tad cynical but your post seems more apt for complete novices.

 

[boatboat]

x yachts x37.

 

[chinita]

I think that this is on of the most bizarre threads I have read.

A chap comes on with his first post to say that his parents are planning a circumnavigation of 'England' in a few years time. They have 70 -90 grand (GBP) - in case we think he meant Chinese Yuan - . They want two cabins 'to maximise comfort' with 'assymetric preferred' (!) 'Comfort is preferred' but 'Hallberg Rassy and Najad is a bit too comfortable'.

Lots of suggestions come forth before we learn that his parents are 'fit and healthy 55 year olds' with, apparently a fair amount of sailing and racing experience. Yet, they seem unable to carry out their own research!

It seems to me that the OP knows a great deal more about the market than most of the people who are responding so I wonder what the point of it all is.

As for the proposed spreadsheet - LOL! If his parents take any notice of that I would be amazed - and disappointed.

Anyway, if it is all genuine then 'chapeau'.