Suitable Yacht for around Britain

[Bav34]

Are you really suggesting this ONE post wonder is a troll ?

I would not be so unwelcoming to a 'newbie'

I was just mentioning that it had been mentioned.

Tis a very odd question tho' ... if 'they' already know the difference between an HR and a J109 don't 'they' already know what 'they' want?

 

[Pleiades]

Taking the high ground?

I like Dylan's perspective - I quote, " also think that a boat that can take the ground would be essential for enjoying the journey."

I can understand the attraction - for me however, essential for enjoying the journey would be a boat that never at any time takes the ground......particularly if unplanned!

Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5

 

[clyst]

I would not be so unwelcoming to a 'newbie'

I was just mentioning that it had been mentioned.

Tis a very odd question tho' ... if 'they' already know the difference between an HR and a J109 don't 'they' already know what 'they' want?

it is school holidays remember .

 

[xyachtdave]

Size is not important - it is the ability to plan passages suitable for one's own level of skill & experience that is critical. So any boat they are comfortable with will do, provided they approach the trip with common sense.

All the relevant information required on post #2. How's that for service?!

 

[snooks]

Snooks - do you mean a boat with an inside steering position

I was thinking of a boat with a deck saloon or a warm cockpit tent, with windows big enough to appreciate the scenery.

Of the two and a bit months we spent cruising Scotland we were only able to sit on deck in the evening just three or four times due to the weather. Not being able to sit and look out of the windows means you could be in a marina or fish dock or beautiful anchorage and not know where you are because the inside of the boat looks the same in all three.

As you know the cruising yachtsman spends evenings on the boat, whether you can go out to a restaurant or pub is moot because you still have to live on board in the mornings and evenings and the days or weeks you can't go anywhere.

 

[photodog]

I was thinking of a boat with a deck saloon or a warm cockpit tent, with windows big enough to appreciate the scenery.

Of the two and a bit months we spent cruising Scotland we were only able to sit on deck in the evening just three or four times due to the weather. Not being able to sit and look out of the windows means you could be in a marina or fish dock or beautiful anchorage and not know where you are because the inside of the boat looks the same in all three.

As you know the cruising yachtsman spends evenings on the boat, whether you can go out to a restaurant or pub is moot because you still have to live on board in the mornings and evenings and the days or weeks you can't go anywhere.

We are keen to shift to the Clyde.. but I wont do this until I can upgrade... I think a 1999 SO 40DS would be almost ideal for the reasons you give.... plus its a good sailor.

 

[Kurrawong_Kid]

I was thinking of a boat with a deck saloon or a warm cockpit tent, with windows big enough to appreciate the scenery.

Of the two and a bit months we spent cruising Scotland we were only able to sit on deck in the evening just three or four times due to the weather. Not being able to sit and look out of the windows means you could be in a marina or fish dock or beautiful anchorage and not know where you are because the inside of the boat looks the same in all three.

As you know the cruising yachtsman spends evenings on the boat, whether you can go out to a restaurant or pub is moot because you still have to live on board in the mornings and evenings and the days or weeks you can't go anywhere.

Quite so! Purchased such a cockpit "shed" last season for that very reason.

 

[chinita]

Are you really suggesting this ONE post wonder is a troll ?

Easy to be a one post wonder.

Just register using a new pc with a new username and, Hey!, a whole new world opens up to you.

 

[Searush]

I like Dylan's perspective - I quote, " also think that a boat that can take the ground would be essential for enjoying the journey."

I can understand the attraction - for me however, essential for enjoying the journey would be a boat that never at any time takes the ground......particularly if unplanned!

Robin
Pleiades of Birdham
MXWQ5

There are many harbours that will be closed to you around the East coast, Irish Sea & Bristol Channel areas if you cannot take the ground. That's a lot of the UK & it isn't always possible (or safe) to sail past them all.

It is quite likely you may end up sailing into a gale to gain sea room so you can heave to for a day if you can't use drying harbours. Dylan may enjoy creek crawling but his skill, ability & experience is far broader than just that.

 

[Beadle]

I'll try to help

1 You need a boat that will achieve a reasonable speed under sail - even in relatively light winds - Thats so you can make good distance in reasonable weather - oherwise there is trying to balance the chances of making distnce and/or been caught out in something really nasty

2 Its a long trip which means a long time in the boat - don't go too small or you will end up wanting to kill each other - called "rat effect"

3 A sheltered steering position has much to commend it - a 4 hour watch in a cold wind when its pouring with rain is no-ones idea of fun.

4 Much to be said for a long keel - a deep fin may be faster but they're "busy" to steer, a long keel boat may lose a bit in speed but more relaxing to steer - particularly if the weather turns a bit nasty.

5 Not too light in weight - for a circumnavigation of UK you will need to carry a decent weight of food water etc. That will impair the performance of a lightweight boat more thn a heavy one.

6 Make sure you have plenty of water capacity - you can go without food for days but not much more than hours without water.

7 One with a decent sized engine - We all prefer to sail but sometimes tacking against wind and tide - particularly if cold wet and hungary - can rapidly pall.

Hope this helps a bit

 

[chinita]

OK. I'll take the bait:

Tell them to get a good Bilge Keel LM30 for half of the budget.

Danish build quality
Dual helm with protected wheelhouse
Nice saloon
Nice forecabin
Good engine in a watertight compartment
Sails reasonably well
Motors reasonably well
Takes the ground
Cheap to berth in a marina
Minimal maintenance (no external woodwork)
Excellent resale value - they will get their money back.

There.


Just found one: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/granalacant/PSC/LM30.html (no connection).

 

[jonic]

Good to see the forum's general mistrust of anything weighing less than a Thames Barge and designed in my lifetime is alive and well!

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

OK. I'll take the bait:

Tell them to get a good Bilge Keel LM30 for half of the budget.

Danish build quality
Dual helm with protected wheelhouse
Nice saloon
Nice forecabin
Good engine in a watertight compartment
Sails reasonably well
Motors reasonably well
Takes the ground
Cheap to berth in a marina
Minimal maintenance (no external woodwork)
Excellent resale value - they will get their money back.

There.


Just found one: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/granalacant/PSC/LM30.html (no connection).

great suggestion

 

[flaming]

Tell them to get a good Bilge Keel LM30 for half of the budget.

Nice boat for what it is. But anyone who's starting point is a 36.7 or a J109 is going to seriously disagree with your assertion that it sails reasonably well.

 

[snooks]

I'll try to help

1 You need a boat that will achieve a reasonable speed under sail - even in relatively light winds - Thats so you can make good distance in reasonable weather - oherwise there is trying to balance the chances of making distnce and/or been caught out in something really nasty

Don't tell Dylan

Until you get to the north east coast of England, it's all day sailable, you just have to wait for the right weather. In light winds (or no winds) you can put on the engine if you have to. We passage plan at 4.5-5 knots so while speeds of 6 or 7 knots are good you don't need a yacht that will do that.

2 Its a long trip which means a long time in the boat - don't go too small or you will end up wanting to kill each other - called "rat effect"

Surely it's more to do personalities, understanding and forgiveness than the size of boat?

My girlfriend became my fiancée and she's now my wife, after sailing from Portsmouth to Scotland in our Sadler 32 (31'6), more room than a Contessa 32, but cosy by modern standards.

3 A sheltered steering position has much to commend it - a 4 hour watch in a cold wind when its pouring with rain is no-ones idea of fun.

That's true, but if a 4 watch is too long make it shorter, when we're cruising we do an hour on the helm, an hour off, during the day and two hours on, two off at night....If you're cruising you can sit in the rain and get wet, or go to the pub and go sailing another day.

4 Much to be said for a long keel - a deep fin may be faster but they're "busy" to steer, a long keel boat may lose a bit in speed but more relaxing to steer - particularly if the weather turns a bit nasty.

A slight contradiction to your first point perhaps? A long keeler that can make good progress in light winds

We hand steered from the middle of the Celtic sea going north up to Orkney and back down to Largs without a tiller pilot. We have a deep fin, an unbalanced 75% skeg and had normal length arms at the end of it.

6 Make sure you have plenty of water capacity - you can go without food for days but not much more than hours without water.

All our drinking water came from bottles, we also carried 200lt of water we also had 100lt of fuel (70 in the tank 30 in jerry cans) and. There are lots of places where it's possible to fill up or buy drinking water, yes you might have to do it by jerry cans but that's all part of cruising.

So while your points are valid, you don't need any them really, you just find your way around things, and enjoy yourself

 

[chinita]

Nice boat for what it is. But anyone who's starting point is a 36.7 or a J109 is going to seriously disagree with your assertion that it sails reasonably well.

Having done most of the trip they are planning I would happily sacrifice sailing performance for weather protection.

I had wheelhouse steering on my boat and remember very well arriving in Kilmore Quay in filthy weather, dry as a bone with no oilies to be seen.

One hour later a soaking wet, exhausted and bedraggled couple arrived in their Nic 35 - beautiful boat, great sailing yacht. They wanted to sell it there and then.

 

[Searush]

Snooks has it, if you want to do it, you can, and in almost any boat. It's the will that's important, the determination to deal with weather, bad weather, contrary winds, or whatever strikes.

A lack of hurry & no shortage of cash would also help. The boat itself is almost irrelevant provided you like it, you plan well & it is well found. Read "A Summer's Grace" for some idea of the issues that can arise. There is no need to push into foul weather if you have time to sit it out. If you don't have time, I wouldn't even consider setting out with such a finite aim. Remember sailing boats set out "towards" an objective rather than "to" a port.

 

[Beadle]

Don't tell Dylan

Until you get to the north east coast of England, it's all day sailable, you just have to wait for the right weather. In light winds (or no winds) you can put on the engine if you have to. We passage plan at 4.5-5 knots so while speeds of 6 or 7 knots are good you don't need a yacht that will do that.



Surely it's more to do personalities, understanding and forgiveness than the size of boat?

My girlfriend became my fiancée and she's now my wife, after sailing from Portsmouth to Scotland in our Sadler 32 (31'6), more room than a Contessa 32, but cosy by modern standards.



That's true, but if a 4 watch is too long make it shorter, when we're cruising we do an hour on the helm, an hour off, during the day and two hours on, two off at night....If you're cruising you can sit in the rain and get wet, or go to the pub and go sailing another day.



A slight contradiction to your first point perhaps? A long keeler that can make good progress in light winds

We hand steered from the middle of the Celtic sea going north up to Orkney and back down to Largs without a tiller pilot. We have a deep fin, an unbalanced 75% skeg and had normal length arms at the end of it.



All our drinking water came from bottles, we also carried 200lt of water we also had 100lt of fuel (70 in the tank 30 in jerry cans) and. There are lots of places where it's possible to fill up or buy drinking water, yes you might have to do it by jerry cans but that's all part of cruising.

So while your points are valid, you don't need any them really, you just find your way around things, and enjoy yourself

No argument with any of that

What I wanted to do was to widen the debate from "buy a boat like mine"

At least the OP now has some reasoning behind the suggestions so hopefully will be better placed to buy the right boat

Whatever it is

 

[Willfox]

Thanks

Thanks for the replies,

They have raced regularly on board a Dehler 39, Sigma 38 and we have been on may charter holidays with Beneteaus of various sizes but for the 2 of them, they have said that they would feel comfortable with a yacht around 35 feet.

I was just wondering if anyone had any recommendations for yachts of this size given the requirements.

Sailorman - I don't think that J-109's or a First 35.7's are too race orientated for the trip. They are hardly Jason Kerr or Mark Mills designs! My thinking was that it would be much more satisfying sailing closer to the wind which can be so tedious with some dogs!

Chinita - I think for a 35 foot yacht, 7 knots is probably a bit optimistic, prob 6 - 6.5 looking at Froude number.

Tranona - Thanks for the post and the welcome. Yes you have hit the nail on the head. With every yacht there is a compromise somewhere. Heavier cruisers with more internal volume and nice covered cockpits are comfortable but you sacrifice performance. J - boats, whist being fast, you may have to swallow a lot of seawater! I'll have a look at PBO as suggested.

Has anyone had any experience with a Dufour 36 classic?

 

[dt4134]

There are many harbours that will be closed to you around the East coast, Irish Sea & Bristol Channel areas if you cannot take the ground. That's a lot of the UK & it isn't always possible (or safe) to sail past them all.

On the other hand, if you have a deep draught you can cover the ground between the remaining harbours far quicker.