Suggestions for a bilge keel yacht with good headroom

[WoodyP]

Kingfisher 30 is 6ft 3in. In saloon.

 

[Bristolfashion]

The OP is planning to creek crawl around the east coast. Note I said "sort of competitors" and I just used it to illustrate that there is a choice within his price range.

Just a bit of gentle Konsort ribbing mate!

 

[Thresher]

Leisure 27

Yes, I've just measured mine. It's 186-189cm.

 

[Shearwater1]

How about one of the smaller Moodys? Perhaps someone on here will know what headroom they offer. Or a Westerly Griffon maybe?
Stag 28 and Seal 28 both have good headroom I seem to recall. Both are lifting keel boats.

Very interested in a Stag 28, unfortuately they rarely come up for sale as so few were built. Moody's tend to be over budget and headroom is pretty average in the smaller boats

 

[Shearwater1]

Hunter Horizon 27TK / 272 / 273 might suit. Though I can't find the actual claimed headroom. All I know is is it more than our smaller HH23

Hunter Horizon 273 archive details - Yachtsnet Ltd. online UK yacht brokers - yacht brokerage and boat sales

Hunters have good headroom, not keen on layouts though

 

[Shearwater1]

Very interested in a Stag 28, unfortuately they rarely come up for sale as so few were built. Moody's tend to be over budget and headroom is pretty average in the smaller boats

How about one of the smaller Moodys? Perhaps someone on here will know what headroom they offer. Or a Westerly Griffon maybe?
Stag 28 and Seal 28 both have good headroom I seem to recall. Both are lifting keel boats.

 

[Shearwater1]

Yes, I've just measured mine. It's 186-189cm.

intereting, it's one I haven't investigated but will have a look......thanks

 

[Shearwater1]

Very interested in a Stag 28, unfortuately they rarely come up for sale as so few were built. Moody's tend to be over budget and headroom is pretty average in the smaller boats

Headroom in older boats is always an issue ... but some such as mine have had the main cabin 'floor' lowered by reducing the height of the support formers across the bilge. So you really need to go look. Many older boats had these in wood .. so easy matter to reduce. Later boats these were often in GRP or encapsulated - making it more difficult.

At end of day - near all boats tend to not be quite headroom as quoted !!

I would just put in the 12K to Boat Sales sites online and see what comes up ... I can suggest a bot - as many have and will ... but at end of day - its based on bias and personal. I'm a great believer in viewing and whether you get the YES or NO gut feeling ... in those first few minutes on board.
If I was to spend longer and have the thought - Oh well I can live with that .. maybe sort that ... then Boat is a NO for me ... as those will be niggly thoughts every time you go on board.

thanks, sound advice and you're right about headroom often being less than stated-it seems to be a measurement that's taken directly beneath the companionway hatch which adds a good few inches

 

[Shearwater1]

Kingfisher 30 is 6ft 3in. In saloon.

I've had a look at the Kingfishers, both the 26 and the 30,you're right, both have good headroom and there's one in Cornwall and another in Suffolk which I may well go and have a look at

 

[Shearwater1]

Second the westerly Konsort, and the smaller Griffon. Examples are often available in your price range.

thanks, have checked out the Konsort but any within my price range look like they will need to be re-engined which will make them unaffordable

 

[Shearwater1]

Yes, I've just measured mine. It's 186-189cm.

Is that thoughout the mid-point of the main cabin or measured below the companionway hatch?

 

[Refueler]

thanks, have checked out the Konsort but any within my price range look like they will need to be re-engined which will make them unaffordable

Honest comment ? There's a lot of humbug spread about engines and need to replace after xx years etc. Yes of course engines wear and get a bit smoky ... may need a bit of help to start some days ... but reality ? They are diesels that have a pretty easy life compared to their land based cousins.

I know I will get a lot of stick for this post - but I base it on years - actually decades of boating.

Westerly's were fitted mostly with Volvo's ... yes they are a distinctive old donk ... that many don't like ... can be a bit on the pocket busting side to repair .. BUT given some TLC can go on decade after decade ...

My personal story : Its not a Volvo - its a Perkins 4-107 - but the engine in one of my boats was from a Rival 31 ... it had become a bit smoky and guy swapped for a new Beta. The engine was put on a pallet and shoved to back of Hayling Yacht Co shed.
My trusty old 4-99 seized after having been subjected to boat flooding. We changed oil .. blew through systems etc. - but she seized about 2 weeks later. Chatting with Richard and Alan .. I was offered the 4-107 for 250 quid as seen. It was a drop in solution and I went for it.
So many people told me I was asking for trouble ... that it was money wasted ...
Alan gave the engine some fuel on the pallet and it fired after about 2 secs .. He offered to clean it up .. paint it etc .. even strip and service. I chose not to - I said - just drop it in and lets see what happens.
Engine in .. connected ... and fired up .. she smoked a bit ... lines cast off .. out into harbour ... gave it a good thrashing .. smoke lessened .. and after a few good hard runs - she only smokes a little on start up. She starts without Cold Start .. without EasyStart ... looks like a lump of rust ..

That was back about 2003 - 4 (can't remember exactly) ... but today that engine is still performing as well as it did back then .. and I would trust that engine to go anywhere.
I've had mechanics on board boat - they see it and all have remarked how sweet it runs ..

As they say - don't judge a book by its cover. Also before condemning an engine - actually give it a trial and see what it really does.

 

[Tranona]

thanks, have checked out the Konsort but any within my price range look like they will need to be re-engined which will make them unaffordable

You are right. A new engine makes them unaffordable as you can see from the asking prices for those that have replacement engines- typically £15k compared with £10-12k for those with the original Bukh. However the Bukh is an engine that is easier to keep going than a Volvo of the same period. There is also a strong market in reconditioned Bukh engines which are significantly cheaper than new engines, particularly if DIY fitment.

As ever with buying boats one's ideal criteria are greater than your budget and compromises have to be made if you are ever going to actually buy. The boat you like is almost always more money that you would like to spend so at some point you have to either accept the constraints of the boats in your budget or up the budget. The capital cost at this level is out of sync with both running costs and at this point purchase related cost. For example buying a boat in Cornwall for use in the east coast could well cost £2-3k more than a boat with the same purchase price bought locally when you take into account the travel costs to view and the cost of sailing back, never mind using road transport.

Good luck with your search.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Colvic Countess 33. My son in law was 6'+ and commented on the air draught.

 

[Tranona]

Colvic Countess 33. My son in law was 6'+ and commented on the air draught.

Any good ones going for £12k? which is the OPs budget

 

[Refueler]

Colvic Countess 33. My son in law was 6'+ and commented on the air draught.

The Countess range - always a fav of mine ....

 

[Shearwater1]

You are right. A new engine makes them unaffordable as you can see from the asking prices for those that have replacement engines- typically £15k compared with £10-12k for those with the original Bukh. However the Bukh is an engine that is easier to keep going than a Volvo of the same period. There is also a strong market in reconditioned Bukh engines which are significantly cheaper than new engines, particularly if DIY fitment.

As ever with buying boats one's ideal criteria are greater than your budget and compromises have to be made if you are ever going to actually buy. The boat you like is almost always more money that you would like to spend so at some point you have to either accept the constraints of the boats in your budget or up the budget. The capital cost at this level is out of sync with both running costs and at this point purchase related cost. For example buying a boat in Cornwall for use in the east coast could well cost £2-3k more than a boat with the same purchase price bought locally when you take into account the travel costs to view and the cost of sailing back, never mind using road transport.

Good luck with your search.

Thanks for that, I was unaware that Bukh had such a good reputation. You're right, the buying of a boat is one thing, it's the getting it up to scratch and getting it to where you want to be, which is something I've still to learn despite the lessons of previous boat buys over the years. I'm happy to make compromises now, if the boat I buy can potter around the east coast rivers, allow me to stand upright and stay upright when the tide recedes then I'm happy

 

[Shearwater1]

Honest comment ? There's a lot of humbug spread about engines and need to replace after xx years etc. Yes of course engines wear and get a bit smoky ... may need a bit of help to start some days ... but reality ? They are diesels that have a pretty easy life compared to their land based cousins.

I know I will get a lot of stick for this post - but I base it on years - actually decades of boating.

Westerly's were fitted mostly with Volvo's ... yes they are a distinctive old donk ... that many don't like ... can be a bit on the pocket busting side to repair .. BUT given some TLC can go on decade after decade ...

My personal story : Its not a Volvo - its a Perkins 4-107 - but the engine in one of my boats was from a Rival 31 ... it had become a bit smoky and guy swapped for a new Beta. The engine was put on a pallet and shoved to back of Hayling Yacht Co shed.
My trusty old 4-99 seized after having been subjected to boat flooding. We changed oil .. blew through systems etc. - but she seized about 2 weeks later. Chatting with Richard and Alan .. I was offered the 4-107 for 250 quid as seen. It was a drop in solution and I went for it.
So many people told me I was asking for trouble ... that it was money wasted ...
Alan gave the engine some fuel on the pallet and it fired after about 2 secs .. He offered to clean it up .. paint it etc .. even strip and service. I chose not to - I said - just drop it in and lets see what happens.
Engine in .. connected ... and fired up .. she smoked a bit ... lines cast off .. out into harbour ... gave it a good thrashing .. smoke lessened .. and after a few good hard runs - she only smokes a little on start up. She starts without Cold Start .. without EasyStart ... looks like a lump of rust ..

That was back about 2003 - 4 (can't remember exactly) ... but today that engine is still performing as well as it did back then .. and I would trust that engine to go anywhere.
I've had mechanics on board boat - they see it and all have remarked how sweet it runs ..

As they say - don't judge a book by its cover. Also before condemning an engine - actually give it a trial and see what it really does.

yes, thanks, sound advice, it's always baffled me as to why an old diesel truck / van can still run fine after 150K miles but people are so ready to jettison an old engine in a boat which will have done a fraction of the work in the same time

 

[Shearwater1]

Westerly Konsort if you are happy with the original engine Example here apolloduck.co.uk/boat/westerly-konsort-for-sale/751518

thanks yes, giving the Konsort some serious consideration

 

[B27]

yes, thanks, sound advice, it's always baffled me as to why an old diesel truck / van can still run fine after 150K miles but people are so ready to jettison an old engine in a boat which will have done a fraction of the work in the same time

The issue is more that we're talking about boat engines with 30 years of neglect, and often engines that were on the small side when new.
A 28ft boat with a 1GM which needs a fair few revs to get anywhere, would not be my first choice, even if the 1GM was in perfect condition.
More so with some of the more lightly built boats which seem to amplify the 1GM 'noise and feel'.
The same boat with a 2 cylinder Beta may be much nicer and not much more to buy.

OTOH, by mate has an older longer keel boat with a 1GM which seems a lot better, I think the structure of the boat is more 1GM-proof.

I don't recall actually having sailed with a Bukh, but are they not heavier, lower revving things which might be easier to live with?

Try before you buy if you can.