Strange attitude of yacht club to potential new members

[JumbleDuck]

Clubs can be a cheap and convenient way to get a mooring. They tend to be cheap because the members do a lot of unpaid work for the club, without which a lot more cost would be incurred, and prices would rise.

A club cannot thrive without this work so being able to lend a hand is key.

Using a club just for its cheap mooring or storage, without wishing to contribute, is really not on. It is not a commercial operation and if you treat it as such then be prepared to be treated in a similar way.

Most clubs with moorings require people to be accepted as a member before applying for a mooring or storage.

Why the OP thinks he does not have to abide by any of this speaks huge volumes.

If OP wants someone to help him then a change of twattitude is needed.

Wow. That's quite an attitude you have there. What reason do you have for supposing that the OP is not willing to contribute to the work of the club?

Suppose someone is moving to a new area and wants to base their boat there ... is it really reasonable to expect them to join every club in the area before finding out whether they might get a mooring there? I think it all boils down to whether a club sees itself as a social club which also facilitates some boating or a boating club with a social side.

Incidentally, when I was looking for a mooring for my boat on the Clyde, I thought of joining the Royal Northern and Clyde Yacht Club because they offered a special half price introductory membership to anyone taking one of their moorings. I don't see that deal on their website any more, but I see that they offer April - October "Mooring" membership. That's a million miles away from your claimed norm of "Join the club and then we'll consider telling you about our moorings".

 

[Jaguar 25]

Wow. That's quite an attitude you have there. What reason do you have for supposing that the OP is not willing to contribute to the work of the club?

Suppose someone is moving to a new area and wants to base their boat there ... is it really reasonable to expect them to join every club in the area before finding out whether they might get a mooring there? I think it all boils down to whether a club sees itself as a social club which also facilitates some boating or a boating club with a social side.

Thanks for that. Incidentally when discussing joing Langstone, my son and I made it clear that we were more than happy to participate in the club activities.

Anyway, probably time we called it a day on this thread/postings.

 

[Seajet]

Wow. That's quite an attitude you have there. What reason do you have for supposing that the OP is not willing to contribute to the work of the club?

Suppose someone is moving to a new area and wants to base their boat there ... is it really reasonable to expect them to join every club in the area before finding out whether they might get a mooring there? I think it all boils down to whether a club sees itself as a social club which also facilitates some boating or a boating club with a social side.

Thanks for that. Incidentally when discussing joing Langstone, my son and I made it clear that we were more than happy to participate in the club activities.

Anyway, probably time we called it a day on this thread/postings.

If you'd responded to my PM's and asked me re joining LSC and getting a winter slot / mooring, I could have allayed your worries...

The unpaid volunteer mooring & berthing chap - who could not be more helpful - just has to cover himself and the club against casual enquiries; we only have so much ground to plonk cruisers on, and abandoned boats - dinghies and cruisers - became a problem during the recession, though that's sorted now.

 

[Daydream believer]

Well, yes, if you are happy to have a club which is all drinking members and no sailing members. Fine. No problem. But why not tell prospective members that you want people who will prop up the bar rather than people who will sail from your club.

sailing members who come down to the club, row out to their boat, go sailing, return, put their dinghy away, go home all without saying a single word to anyone else are not really contributing to the atmosphere of a club. Infact the failure to put some effort into the social aspect is bad for the club.
We do not want people who just prop up the bar but we do want people who interact with others & are prepared to assist in various activities. Whether that activity being helping launch & recover boats, help lay racing marks, help antifoul the club launch or do a day on the safety boats. _ i could go on but I am sure you get the idea. People who do not interact in the first place do not normally help with anything & become "social outcasts " ( for want of a better description). Believe it or not it is often it is these people who then go down the road of saying what a horrible bunch of people they are at the club who have their heads up their own A..r..s - to coin a phrase used elsewhere in this thread

 

[Seajet]

I think a remarkable example of why being in a club is a good idea was when a chap a few years ago didn't understand how a club works and thought ' someone else can do it ' when it came to launching his cruiser, which was in the way of everyone else !

The boat was moved out of the way - delaying the rest of us re. the tide - and he got launched by the club hoist team later.

The boat then settled on something nasty and sank, which was no fault of the owner or club, just a careless individual...

I was called by a chum who was watching all this happen, so I grabbed anything I thought might be handy and set off at warp speed - it's normally an hour and a quarter drive to the club from home.

When I got there a team of 10 or so club stalwarts seemed to emerge from nowhere, and we got together in the clubhouse to form a rescue plan.

Only one person said " I don't think we should get involved due to liability etc " - he was met with a brief silence and laser stares, and the then Commodore simply said " as I see it, a club boat is in trouble; we help ! "

The boat was duly raised from the seabed and towed in still largely submerged, not without a lot of hairy moments, and hoisted ashore.

Best speech I ever heard, and a fine illustration of how a good club works.

 

[Sailfree]

It is not unknown for clubs to end up with two types of members.

One set are active sailors - often dinghy sailors who use the club house extensively including showers etc. the second set are owners of large sailing boats that want the cheapest mooring or berth they can obtain.

The former help out at the club and generally want to improve the club even if it costs an increase in membership fees. The later do nothing at the club and refuse all improvements if it costs them more money. I do wish the latter would leave and go to a commercial marina but that costs them more!

 

[JumbleDuck]

sailing members who come down to the club, row out to their boat, go sailing, return, put their dinghy away, go home all without saying a single word to anyone else are not really contributing to the atmosphere of a club.

So would you rather have people who prop up the bar but never help with maintenance work or people who are happy to lend a hand when things need done but aren't terribly sociable?

I suppose, as I said before, it depends on whether you see it as a social club with a bit of sailing going on for those that want or a sailing club with some socialising doing on for those that want. Both are fine, but it's probably wise to make sure which you are to prospective members. (All "you"s there generic, not personal.)

 

[Seajet]

Sailfree,

most of the cruiser owners at my club are ex or even current dinghy sailors as well, until fairly recently I had an Osprey as well as my Anderson, before that a Dart 18 and before that a Scorpion all at the same time as the cruiser.

I do wish inexperienced newbie dinghy sailors didn't have a chip on their shoulder about cruiser types, and realised we were sailing Fireballs, Int 14's and Ospreys while they were still in nappies !

Anything which requires money or effort is shared equally among all members.

 

[Tintin]

It is not unknown for clubs to end up with two types of members.

One set are active sailors - often dinghy sailors who use the club house extensively including showers etc. the second set are owners of large sailing boats that want the cheapest mooring or berth they can obtain.

The former help out at the club and generally want to improve the club even if it costs an increase in membership fees. The later do nothing at the club and refuse all improvements if it costs them more money. I do wish the latter would leave and go to a commercial marina but that costs them more!

Sadly my club has a few of the latter type who are starting to whinge about us buying 4 more secondhand Pico's for the Cadets and see it as their mooring fees (which are way cheaper than commercial rates) unfairly subsidising the new sailors.

Of course they don't whinge when twice as much is planned to be spent on more toast racks or a new outboard shed.

It's funny how the cadet parents are often the first in line to help out too with club maintenance.

The cadets and their parents are the boat owners / buyers / sailors of the future, and imho without them there would be a much reduced market for older smaller cruisers.

Two weeks ago I sold my 27ft yacht to a young couple with two young kids. The kids had done cadet dinghy sailing and their parents had decided (after pressure from the kids) to not wait until retirement to buy a 36ft yacht, and instead get a smaller boat 15 years earlier.

Clubs need people to be involved and young people and their parents to be encouraged.

 

[Sailfree]

Sailfree,

most of the cruiser owners at my club are ex or even current dinghy sailors as well, until fairly recently I had an Osprey as well as my Anderson, before that a Dart 18 and before that a Scorpion all at the same time as the cruiser.

I do wish inexperienced newbie dinghy sailors didn't have a chip on their shoulder about cruiser types, and realised we were sailing Fireballs, Int 14's and Ospreys while they were still in nappies !

Anything which requires money or effort is shared equally among all members.

Just because you or others "used" to sail dinghies it doesn't stop many from developing into selfish tight gits that put little back into a YC.

I started sailing/racing Wayfarers and have also owned cruisers (currently a 43') but as a club member of some 24 yrs I feel I should leave the club a better place than when I joined.

Cheap berthing should be a bonus to club membership not the reason for joining.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Clubs need people to be involved and young people and their parents to be encouraged.

Does your club insist that cadets join and muck in with maintenance work for a bit before finding out whether they'll be allowed to sail?

Cheap berthing should be a bonus to club membership not the reason for joining.

Sez who? I'm a member of a club which exists solely to provide cheap moorings, and which meets precisely once per year. Are we doing it wrong, O Great One?

 

[Sailfree]

Sez who? I'm a member of a club which exists solely to provide cheap moorings, and which meets precisely once per year. Are we doing it wrong, O Great One?

Yes you are dong it wrong if you end up with a sh thole of clubhouse and then using visiting privileges to use the facilities including the dining facilities of a decent YC whose members have invested in their club!

I assume O Great One refers to my YC that I am proud to be a member and am happy to take guests.

 

[JumbleDuck]

Yes you are dong it wrong if you end up with a sh thole of clubhouse and then using visiting privileges to use the facilities including the dining facilities of a decent YC whose members have invested in their club!

We don't have a clubhouse. We have a shed in which, for a fiver a year, we can store oars and outboards. Also we have boats and go sailing which, for some of us at any rate, is the point of a sailing club.

I assume O Great One refers to my YC that I am proud to be a member and am happy to take guests.

Dining clubs are nice, too.

 

[Resolution]

Are we doing it wrong, O Great One?

Technically, no. A club is usually defined along the lines of a group of people acting together for a common goal or purpose. So your "moorings" club is every much a valid sailing club as one which is centred on bar or dining activity.
But IMHO you are missing out on one of the great pleasures of sailing which is sailing in company with other yachts - either racing or cruising - and meeting up with other sailors to talk about it all.
Peter

 

[JumbleDuck]

Technically, no. A club is usually defined along the lines of a group of people acting together for a common goal or purpose. So your "moorings" club is every much a valid sailing club as one which is centred on bar or dining activity.

Thanks. I'm not doubting that social clubs can be fun, but I think it's a bit arrogant of some people to assume that their vision of a club as primarily a social establishment is more valid than their fellow members' vision of a club which is primarily for sailing facilities.

When a gliding club of which I was a member got a brand new clubhouse (and airfield) they made a decision not to have a bar or dining facilities, because they preferred to give their custom to the excellent local pub and café. It's a particularly good idea not to be stand-offish from a village over which you fly regularly, but it has a lot to commend it for sailing too. For me, anyway, it's fun to go somewhere and meet all the locals, not lock myself up with fellow sailors.

As for cruising in company - yeugh. Can't imagine anything I'd like less. Absolutely fine if other people like it, of course.

 

[Seajet]

Jumbleduck,

our club started out very similar to yours, like a lot of clubs it was founded just after WWII when people fancied a bit of fun, in fact it was first formed in a room at the nearby Ship Inn.

We have always welcomed dinghies as well as cruisers, and it has always been a self help club, no paid staff, so the various skills of members come into use.

About 30 years ago it was decided the old shed clubhouse had reached expiry, so all the members chipped in - I think it was £25.00 in those days ! - and a very good new clubhouse was built.

There's also an extremely handy tractor powered hydraulic boat lift; when I and a couple of others were pressure washing a slipway recently a members' cruiser was found to have a serious leak so we dropped everything and used the hoist to get her ashore pronto, another good illustration of how the club works.

The dinghy section have good facilities, and there's quite a fleet of various boats the Juniors can just sign out, also we are big on the ' Sailability ' thing for the disabled, with a fleet of specially adapted boats inc trimarans and a Norfolk Oyster.

I don't go for the social scene much, largely as I live too far away, but I know most people and enjoy being a member; I have never bothered with the ' Flag Officer ' part of it, but that is taken as it should be with people taking responsibility for various tasks, no illuminated hats or special ensigns !

I have been a member of other clubs which I had to join to get a deep water mooring when I had a fin keeler, and I found the experience ghastly, overloaded with social climbers and loud-mouths !

I reckon one has to go a long way to beat our club, I think they've got it right; and if other Solent sailors hear my total costs inc membership, a sheltered half tide mooring in Chichester Harbour 5 minutes row from the slip and two nice old pubs, locked tender pen there, hoist in and out, winter storage, the lot costs me just under £400 a year they'll see my point !

 

[Daydream believer]

So would you rather have people who prop up the bar but never help with maintenance work or people who are happy to lend a hand when things need done but aren't terribly sociable?

I suppose, as I said before, it depends on whether you see it as a social club with a bit of sailing going on for those that want or a sailing club with some socialising doing on for those that want. Both are fine, but it's probably wise to make sure which you are to prospective members. (All "you"s there generic, not personal.)

People who "prop up the bar" (to use your incorrect term) usually get involved socially & can be pinned down to assist with jobs.
Most do help. They "prop up the bar" because they go in the club & interact with others
Members who never go in the club house are much harder to engage in any duties & are often found to be poor members
it sounds to me that you are a bit biased against the social side, so I suspect you are another "dodger"

 

[JumbleDuck]

We have always welcomed dinghies as well as cruisers, and it has always been a self help club, no paid staff, so the various skills of members come into use.

Your club sounds like a fun place which welcomes a variety of members with a variety of priorities.

People who "prop up the bar" (to use your incorrect term) usually get involved socially & can be pinned down to assist with jobs.
Most do help. They "prop up the bar" because they go in the club & interact with others
Members who never go in the club house are much harder to engage in any duties & are often found to be poor members
it sounds to me that you are a bit biased against the social side, so I suspect you are another "dodger"

And your club sounds like one infested by old farts who prefer drinking to sailing and drive away anyone they think has different views. That's a little less attractive. It might be worth reflecting on why the active sailing members of your club find the social side so unappealing.

Working party at Kirkcudbright SC this Saturday. I'll be there. It's not the moorings association I referred to, by the way.

 

[Jaguar 25]

If you'd responded to my PM's and asked me re joining LSC and getting a winter slot / mooring, I could have allayed your worries...

The unpaid volunteer mooring & berthing chap - who could not be more helpful - just has to cover himself and the club against casual enquiries; we only have so much ground to plonk cruisers on, and abandoned boats - dinghies and cruisers - became a problem during the recession, though that's sorted now.

Well he wasn't helpful to me! It was your PM that prompted us to try LSC. Apologies for not responding.

 

[Daydream believer]

Your club sounds like a fun place which welcomes a variety of members with a variety of priorities.



And your club sounds like one infested by old farts who prefer drinking to sailing and drive away anyone they think has different views. That's a little less attractive. It might be worth reflecting on why the active sailing members of your club find the social side so unappealing.
.

As well as 50 keelboats on the water
This year we held 12 open meetings 4 of which were the classes national championships ( the best supported one had about 50 boats). Plus one well attended open rowing event.
Most are repeat visits from the classes
A club that can run those successfully has to be a good club for sailing. so I would suggest that your comments are unfounded
But it does need a social scene to support it.
I suggest you have got your facts totally wrong. But never mind we can do without you