Stored New Engine Oil

[wonkywinch]

Can understand why Concorde didn't make sense financially.

Can see why planes don't fly directly from A to B sometimes . Headwinds ?

Planes will always be planned to fly the shortest route but subject to ATC, local restrictions (eg war zones). If you look at a route say London to San Francisco then the great circle route (shortest) appears to take it north and back south again but it is a straight line over a sphere.

For jet streams, the most cost effective route is calculated, ie some track mile increase to avoid the adverse headwinds but general routing is via the great circle.

 

[Stemar]

Headwinds ?

I'm sure that's part of it - a 200mph jetstream in your face will play havoc with your schedule and fuel calculations!

 

[Stemar]

but subject to ATC, local restrictions

Also, interestingly, to avoid Nepal. It seems that, in an emergency - loss of pressurisation, engine failure, etc, step 1 is to descend to 14000 ft. Only problem is the average elevation of the Himalayan plateau is well above that.

 

[Refueler]

Can understand why Concorde didn't make sense financially.

Can see why planes don't fly directly from A to B sometimes . Headwinds ?

When initially start of design - it actually was not so bad a proposition - but over the time it took to get into service - and during - oil prices soared.

My Father involved in Concorde always used to quote the 747 vs Concorde ...

Concorde a fabulous piece of kit but its passenger tally vs time was on a losing wicket compared to 747. Regardless of the fuel used. 747 would deliver approx 3x as many passengers in only 2.5x Concordes time ... the maths was against Concorde.

Its why wide body jets became #1 ... but of course even that can be taken too far ... A380 as example.

 

[wonkywinch]

I'm sure that's part of it - a 200mph jetstream in your face will play havoc with your schedule and fuel calculations!

They are built into airline schedules as, especially the N Atlantic jets, are fairly predictible year by year. If you check the timetables, a London to New York flight will be scheduled shorter in June than it is December. At the shoulder seasons immediately before/after the seasonal timetable changes, then flights are early/late til the wind settles down.

There are restrictions on early arrivals vs schedule, especially at Heathrow, so pilots/airlines use various methods to build this in (taxi and fly slowly to build fat for example, fly faster into a jet stream). The FMC (flight management computer) and the airlines flight planning system works this out, it is more efficient to fly faster into a headwind (minimise exposure) and slower in a tailwind (maximise benefit) so you might see a plan that showed the same plane crossing the Atlantic westbound at M0.86 (86% speed of sound) into the wind and M0.78 with the tailwind.

 

[wonkywinch]

Also, interestingly, to avoid Nepal. It seems that, in an emergency - loss of pressurisation, engine failure, etc, step 1 is to descend to 14000 ft. Only problem is the average elevation of the Himalayan plateau is well above that.

Flown over the Himalayas a few times. Lots of the world has terrain >10,000 (the altitude most people can breathe without assistance). For high terrain routes, especially over Iran & China, we had escape routes with Oxy ETPs (oxygen equal time points) where we knew to continue or turn back in the event of pressurisation failure. Don't have to come down to 14k for engine failure, depending on the weight of the plane at the same, the single engine operating altitude was usually around 23-28k in a B787.

Some escape routes are complex, eg over Tajikistan and turning back or going into Dushanbe or Tashkent on a diversion but more modern aeroplanes have bottled oxygen supplies for passengers rather than the old chemical generators that only lasted 10 mins and were a one off.

 

[Refueler]

My understanding is that 10mins is still the base level regardless of source.

 

[wonkywinch]

My understanding is that 10mins is still the base level regardless of source.

It may well be, it's to cover the time to plan and execute an emergency descent from 40,000 to 10,000 feet. With structural damage you'd maintain normal descent rate which would be around 3k to 4k fpm.

 

[thinwater]

Used oil collection, in the US in areas with relatively effective programs, is about 2 gallons per person, per year, vehicle + industrial. Oily water can double or triple that, depending on the industries. Internal recycle, for heating fuel or other purposes, is not captured.

 

[Refueler]

It may well be, it's to cover the time to plan and execute an emergency descent from 40,000 to 10,000 feet. With structural damage you'd maintain normal descent rate which would be around 3k to 4k fpm.

Yes - knew that from my Father ..... CAA

 

[Refueler]

Used oil collection, in the US in areas with relatively effective programs, is about 2 gallons per person, per year, vehicle + industrial. Oily water can double or triple that, depending on the industries. Internal recycle, for heating fuel or other purposes, is not captured.

Its a joke actually ... Car Services have to pay a collection company .. who then SELL it on !! There are small 'refinerys' who distill and recycle who buy as much as they can get hold of ..

My Companys - we would sample every shipment and have to retain for 30 .. 60 .. 90 days or whatever client required. The volume is a lot !! We used to have a series of garages in a block for it ... When samples were out of date - we were expected to pay for disposal !
Gasoline and diesel - that was easy - throw it in the company cars .. but the fuel oil / crudes ... we found 'other ways' to get rid of it ...
Base Oils - they would be used as flushing oil ... lawnmowers .. chain oil ... any lubricating jobs that were not sensitive to grade ..

It was crazy - we could give it away free ... but if we sold it - then that was illegal as samples came from Customs Free Zones ...

 

[rotrax]

The Lub Oil extracted from refining is what I used to ship hundreds of thousands of tons of .... and its called BASE OIL ... not Lub. We shipped up to 10 different grades - which then independent Lub Oil Co's would add their components to .. detergents, anti ox, Visco modifiers etc.
One of my clients then - had the contract for London Transport as example ... you'd be surprised how much they went through !

My technical contacts at both Castrol and Comma used the description 'Bright Stock' for what you are calling 'BASE OIL' when I worked in both the Motor and Motorcycle Industries in a Technical capacity.

Perhaps 'Bright Stock' is out of date now?

Castrol are purely blenders, not refiners, and Motorsport kept them at the top of the standings for years. Silkolene had the big centrifuge at Belper for cleaning old lube oils. Silkolene recycled oil was 'first fill' in Ford at Dagenham for years, changed at the 500 mile service at the dealers. That stopped when the Belper Centrifuge burned down...................

 

[wonkywinch]

Castrol are purely blenders, not refiners, and Motorsport kept them at the top of the standings for years.

Am I the only sad character that pops a teaspoon of Castrol R into their lawnmower fuel to get that racetrack aroma when doing domestic chores?

 

[Refueler]

When I lived in UK - before I got involved in Lub Oil business ... I was a Duckhams user ..... basically because it was good but cheaper than other named brands. It was also the oil I used when I club raced the car.

I have a personal dislike of Castrol - having seen and cleaned out rocker covers after its use ! I even knew other 'drivers' who had Castrol stickers on their cars - but would not use it !!

Ford .... I had two 2.8i Capris .. the Special I sold of before the problem showed .. but the non LSD version I kept longer suffered the 'Ford Gearbox' .... after a while - you would get a 'noise' from the box .. and as it got worse - 4th gear would be a bit 'notchy' to select.
Fords answer was to change the oil from High Visco Gear oil to standard engine oil ... this didn't cure the problem .. so they changed to hydraulic oil ...
In those days - if the dealer found you changed to a non Ford supplied 'oil' - they would void the warranty on the box.

The fix was actually to add another oil feed above one of the layshaft .. think it was 4th, as that area of the box was basically running dry. 3rd party gearbox renovators such as the one near Heathrow Airport was wise to this and had added the feed to boxes they sorted. You could buy a box from them - but Ford would then of course want nothing to do with car !!!

 

[Refueler]

Am I the only sad character that pops a teaspoon of Castrol R into their lawnmower fuel to get that racetrack aroma when doing domestic chores?

Drop of Methanol in will give you same aroma.