Steel boat as a long-term liveaboard (in a warm(er) climate).

[Uricanejack]

Any other damage? What about the electronics?

No other damage at all. Electronics including radios were fine. Couldn't tell exactly where it hit. I thought probably the mast but no marks on mast or any of the aerials.
The compass didn't know which way was N or S it was deviations were huge. I think the lighting changed some permeant magnetism near the compass. I left after the voyage before the compass was adjusted.

 

[Brent Swain]

I’m afraid it doesn’t.

It doesn’t allow for leeway and drift from any ocean currents.

In fact it’s a particularly crap way of checking your compass and goes into the same box as ‘welds never fail’ ‘my steel never rusts’ ‘I only do two hours maintenance a year on my steel boat’ and ‘people who sail steel boats don’t need to get a lifer raft’ and ’you can easily close off the air supply and put out fires on steel boats’.

Fortunately, we don't have any gulf stream, or major ocean currents in that part of the Pacific. The west setting current strengthens near the Marquess and Tuamotus, which one must make allowance for, by making landfall well east of them, and excercising caution when making landfall there .
For the rest of that part of the Pacific, current changes are slow, and small, and easily seen in the course between noon sights.
Single handing in a boat with so little directional stability as my first boat, an accurate compass was largely irrelevant, as you couldn't get her to steer accurately enough to make it matter.
As for your claim that "a fire can burn with out oxygen", vs mine that it can't ,I stand by my statement.
As for your homemade claim that I stated that steel never rusts, you are putting words in my mouth so you will have something to jeer at, eliminating your credibility .
With 30 gallons of epoxy on my 31 footer ,maintenance is around a couple of hours a year, on about a half dozen doubloon size dings . The key is thick enough epoxy on super clean shot blasted and primed steel. Zero wood on the outside of steel boat is also critical.
When I built by first boat, friends building next to me insisted on all the trinkets ,expensive gear ,and new materials . I went cruising the S Pacific, they never made it. In terms of the stated goals, my way worked, theirs didn't .One is much safer in a steel boat with no liferaft than in a stock plastic boat with one. In my first and second cruise to the South Pacific no on I knew had a liferaft. Very few I met since had one. Moitessier had none.
Had I insisted on one ,I would never have been able to afford to go.
What you are suggesting is "Those who are not rich should not go cruising."
Screw that kind of elitism

 

[rotrax]

You see, Brent-you are at it again.

" The only way to go cruising is my way "

I am not rich-my wife and I have perhaps spent our money unwisely on an expensive boat. We wont get our money back when we sell, thats for sure.

But, we are cruising, in far more challenging conditions than the South Pacific.

So, we are not rich. We are cruising and living aboard about half the year in a GRP boat, with a liferaft, with an engine room that cant be sealed, and we buy expensive bits from suppliers from time to time.

Brent-its a choice. Same as your choice.

The only one making suggestions is you.

You have a low cost lifestyle. You sail and live in exotic places.

Dont knock those who, for various reasons, dont do it your way.

You suffer severely from inverse snobbery, and it does you no credit.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Brent, show me where I have said that a fire can burn without oxygen. Of course a fire can’t burn without oxygen.

Where you are dangerously wrong is continuing to claim that it’s easy to put a fire out by shutting all the hatches etc. The truth is that if you’ve got a raging fire out of control inside a yacht, firstly its not half as easy as you suggest it is to shut off all air supply routes. Secondly, even if you do you then have to wait hours for the temperature to cool down to guarantee there won’t be a fireball as soon as you open a hatch and let air back in.

You might have put a fire out by shutting the hatches in the past and/or seen it done, but as a bit of general advice that also conveniently promotes and reinforces your fixation with steel as a build material, it’s dangerously inadequate.

Commercially built vessels (including the 12 metre and 20 metre size that I sometimes work on) have proper fire alarms and CO2 drench systems with fire extinguishers etc. There is provision to close down a compartment, but experience shows that this you need to be able to fight the fire as well.

On a small steel yacht if you’ve got a raging fire below decks and you close all the hatches and retreat to the upper deck, you’ll run the risk of sinking because a hose from an underwater fittening will burn through. or rupture in the heat.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Your assertions about the compass are now swinging between ‘it doesn’t really matter because you don’t steer the boat that accurately ‘ and ‘you can check it on noon to noon position because we don’t have too much current here’.

As both arguments are such utter nonsense when it comes to trying to swing a compass and either correct it or produce a deviation curve accurate to within a degree or so, no further comment is needed however I’ll indulge in a couple of points.

I particularly enjoyed your suggestion that currents are slow and small and therefore easily seen in variations between noon sights.

If you are checking the compass how do you know there are variations?
You seem to be more confident of your noon sights than me. A few miles off with your position (which you will know includes the use of the compass if doing sun run sun so a double source if problems there) means a possible error of several degrees in the compass. The whole assertion you can check a compass by noon to noon run is complete twaddle.

Hint:try using the azimuth of the sun. You can use a pelorus or you may have noticed some compasses have a pin sticking up in the middle of the card to cast a shadow on the reciprocal of the suns azimuth. As you claim to be such an experienced ocean navigator you’ll know all about what I’m describing....

And any serious navigator knows that having a reliable compass is the most basic necessity on a boat that heads out across open water. People who say it’s not necessary are fools.

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

Check it against your GPS course.
A professional compass adjuster here said fluxgates made more work for him than they cost him.

That's interesting. Did he say why? We do the motoring round in circles thing every now and then and have always found ours to be spot on.

 

[AndrewB]

That's interesting. Did he say why? We do the motoring round in circles thing every now and then and have always found ours to be spot on.

That method only works rather roughly with a steel boat that has its own magnetic field. Of course, you can always mount the compass half way up the mast, but that brings its own problems.

My steel yacht needed a different deviation curve for which tack I was sailing.

 

[Uricanejack]

That method only works rather roughly with a steel boat that has its own magnetic field. Of course, you can always mount the compass half way up the mast, but that brings its own problems.

My steel yacht needed a different deviation curve for which tack I was sailing.

Or the "Flinders Bar raised". If your binnacle had some.

 

[TSB240]

Every time I look at this thread I laugh when I see the OPs name..... That's about the only amusing thing I find about it.

It's getting pretty repetitive . I said you said and a lot of Willy waving and not a lot new to learn from diametrically opposed posters.

I think by now we have all got a measure of our septic sailor.
Some people love tin some plastic. I just love being on the water don't mind if it's on my plastic fantastic or a friends steel stealth bomber. I once sailed a boat made from papiermache. My friend and I have been in the water over winter. I know who will have the bigger task of making their ship look smart again in the fantastic spring weather we always get in April.... The one thing that gets my friend is that there are only three swinging moorings in the entire North Wales area that can take the weight of his craft...... When he was craned out last year he also had to drain all tanks and remove all gear to make sure he was under the mobile crane limits.... Seems to me the old adage bigger boats equals bigger bills should really be updated......
Steve.

 

[[70521]]

Every time I look at this thread I laugh when I see the OPs name..... That's about the only amusing thing I find about it.

It's getting pretty repetitive . I said you said and a lot of Willy waving and not a lot new to learn from diametrically opposed posters.

I think by now we have all got a measure of our septic sailor.
Some people love tin some plastic. I just love being on the water don't mind if it's on my plastic fantastic or a friends steel stealth bomber. I once sailed a boat made from papiermache. My friend and I have been in the water over winter. I know who will have the bigger task of making their ship look smart again in the fantastic spring weather we always get in April.... The one thing that gets my friend is that there are only three swinging moorings in the entire North Wales area that can take the weight of his craft...... When he was craned out last year he also had to drain all tanks and remove all gear to make sure he was under the mobile crane limits.... Seems to me the old adage bigger boats equals bigger bills should really be updated......
Steve.

It is rather painful. I strongly suspect the OP has no idea who John is.

Still, makes an excellent case study on how not to post on a forum.

 

[lpdsn]

It is rather painful. I strongly suspect the OP has no idea who John is.

I suspect you meant BS rather than the OP, who has probably given up on the monster his thread has become.

 

[solent clown]

Hold on guys,
after all, he is only trying to save us all from iron deficiency. :encouragement:

 

[john_morris_uk]

It is rather painful. I strongly suspect the OP has no idea who John is.

Still, makes an excellent case study on how not to post on a forum.

I suspect that if he knew what I’ve gone back to doing, he would instantly dismiss my role as an examiner with the RYA and MCA and the many thousands of miles sailed and ocean crossings on steel and GRP (and ferrocement) many years ago. He also doesn’t know I was a safety advisor for the RNLI once upon a time.

The reality is that none of this experience counts for much in real life. His faintly ridiculous claims should speak for themselves.

 

[TSB240]

I suspect you meant BS rather than the OP, who has probably given up on the monster his thread has become.

I think the OP has gone off on one of Serge's Adventure's with Captain Haddock and Snowy the little Dog.... it's the Tin Tin net tint it!

 

[Brent Swain]

You see, Brent-you are at it again.

" The only way to go cruising is my way "

I am not rich-my wife and I have perhaps spent our money unwisely on an expensive boat. We wont get our money back when we sell, thats for sure.

But, we are cruising, in far more challenging conditions than the South Pacific.

So, we are not rich. We are cruising and living aboard about half the year in a GRP boat, with a liferaft, with an engine room that cant be sealed, and we buy expensive bits from suppliers from time to time.

Brent-its a choice. Same as your choice.

The only one making suggestions is you.

You have a low cost lifestyle. You sail and live in exotic places.

Dont knock those who, for various reasons, dont do it your way.

You suffer severely from inverse snobbery, and it does you no credit.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, rich people can, and do , do it the other way. When not so rich try do it the rich people way, they can ,and often do, take years more than necessary , and many never make it.
I don't feel all that guilty for pointing out that warning( shame on me? Not a chance!) I enjoy giving those who don't want to take forever, and possibly miss the dream, hope and alternatives.
Trinket sellers don't like them to have that knowledge passed on to them.
Yes, all have a choice, and those who don't take "the give up time for shiny" are entitled to info on how to do it now, and affordably. It is for them I post.
This gives an aspiring cruiser a choice and alternative, which some here would not want them to have.It is they who try to force them to do it only one way; their way, by attacking any suggestion of the alternative I have taken.
Aint knocking the other way, just stating it is not anyone's only option.

 

[Brent Swain]

That's interesting. Did he say why? We do the motoring round in circles thing every now and then and have always found ours to be spot on.

He said a steel boat will change a compass from 100 yards away. He said when the boat heels or rolls, everything changes, different at every angle of heel. The higher the compass, the greater the change.

 

[john_morris_uk]

He said a steel boat will change a compass from 100 yards away. He said when the boat heels or rolls, everything changes, different at every angle of heel. The higher the compass, the greater the change.

Do please quote the post where someone said that. If they really did say it (and I’ve kept up with this thread pretty well and haven’t seen the claim) then I’ll be the first to agree with you saying it’s rubbush.

 

[john_morris_uk]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, rich people can, and do , do it the other way. When not so rich try do it the rich people way, they can ,and often do, take years more than necessary , and many never make it.
I don't feel all that guilty for pointing out that warning( shame on me? Not a chance!) I enjoy giving those who don't want to take forever, and possibly miss the dream, hope and alternatives.
Trinket sellers don't like them to have that knowledge passed on to them.
Yes, all have a choice, and those who don't take "the give up time for shiny" are entitled to info on how to do it now, and affordably. It is for them I post.
This gives an aspiring cruiser a choice and alternative, which some here would not want them to have.It is they who try to force them to do it only one way; their way, by attacking any suggestion of the alternative I have taken.
Aint knocking the other way, just stating it is not anyone's only option.

With the exception of

Trinket sellers don't like them to have that knowledge passed on to them.

that’s one of the most sensible and helpful posts I’ve seen from you (if you don’t mind me saying.)

 

[Brent Swain]

Brent, show me where I have said that a fire can burn without oxygen. Of course a fire can’t burn without oxygen.

Where you are dangerously wrong is continuing to claim that it’s easy to put a fire out by shutting all the hatches etc. The truth is that if you’ve got a raging fire out of control inside a yacht, firstly its not half as easy as you suggest it is to shut off all air supply routes. Secondly, even if you do you then have to wait hours for the temperature to cool down to guarantee there won’t be a fireball as soon as you open a hatch and let air back in.

You might have put a fire out by shutting the hatches in the past and/or seen it done, but as a bit of general advice that also conveniently promotes and reinforces your fixation with steel as a build material, it’s dangerously inadequate.

Commercially built vessels (including the 12 metre and 20 metre size that I sometimes work on) have proper fire alarms and CO2 drench systems with fire extinguishers etc. There is provision to close down a compartment, but experience shows that this you need to be able to fight the fire as well.

On a small steel yacht if you’ve got a raging fire below decks and you close all the hatches and retreat to the upper deck, you’ll run the risk of sinking because a hose from an underwater fittening will burn through. or rupture in the heat.

Seal it quickly and you don't get enough heat to burn hoses, or much else. No oxygen, no raging inferno. Wont happen with no oxygen. They simply can't make it to the "raging inferno state, without oxygen.You imply that it will, with no oxygen. Hasn't on any of the boats I mentioned.
When I sealed mine, I sailed to a good anchorage, and waited for hours before opening her. No problem.
Lemme see . 4 cowl vents, two more 6 inch vents , and one engine vent in the cockpit. Under a minute to seal them all.. You would take forever to get that done? Most people wouldn't !
My boats have survived 16 days of pounding on a Baja lee shore, in mostly 12 ft surf , being pulled across the same surf , lifted and dropped 12 feet off each wave, onto hard packed sand, pounding across 300 yards of Fijian Coral leaving Suva, then being pulled back across the reef in big surf by a tug, a single season passage thru the NW passage , grounding in a hurricane in the Mozambique channel, and 40 years of offshore cruising , including 4 circumnavigations, all without any serious damage, which you claim is "dangerously inadequate?"

 

[Brent Swain]

Your assertions about the compass are now swinging between ‘it doesn’t really matter because you don’t steer the boat that accurately ‘ and ‘you can check it on noon to noon position because we don’t have too much current here’.

As both arguments are such utter nonsense when it comes to trying to swing a compass and either correct it or produce a deviation curve accurate to within a degree or so, no further comment is needed however I’ll indulge in a couple of points.

I particularly enjoyed your suggestion that currents are slow and small and therefore easily seen in variations between noon sights.

If you are checking the compass how do you know there are variations?
You seem to be more confident of your noon sights than me. A few miles off with your position (which you will know includes the use of the compass if doing sun run sun so a double source if problems there) means a possible error of several degrees in the compass. The whole assertion you can check a compass by noon to noon run is complete twaddle.

Hint:try using the azimuth of the sun. You can use a pelorus or you may have noticed some compasses have a pin sticking up in the middle of the card to cast a shadow on the reciprocal of the suns azimuth. As you claim to be such an experienced ocean navigator you’ll know all about what I’m describing....

And any serious navigator knows that having a reliable compass is the most basic necessity on a boat that heads out across open water. People who say it’s not necessary are fools.

Several degrees are irrelevant on a boat which wanders 20 degrees, or more, etc either side of a course. No idea where she sailed in the night while a single hander sleeps. Only a sight would tell you that. Swinging a compass to a degree or two in flat water is armchair theory which has nothing to do with the realities of being a singhander at sea. Try your shadow compass in an ocean swell and chop.
Should be as accurate as your sun dial at sea. Is that what you would use as your navigational chronometer?
Again, more armchair theory.