Steel boat as a long-term liveaboard (in a warm(er) climate).

[john_morris_uk]

If anyone bothers to read this thread through, they will see that I’ve consistently written that I believe Brent has some interesting things to say and a contribution to make. I think most sensible people will be able to work out which bits of his ‘this is the way only/best way to do it’ advice is downright dangerous or stupid. You can’t legislate against Darwin Award candidates and so people will have to make their own minds up about whether all his advice/design/techniques are groundbreaking radical brilliance or best ignored.

I don’t think there’s a mob. More of a reaction from a lot of experienced sailors to someone who arrives on the forum and makes very bold claims in an abrasive way and who reacts to questions and critics inappropriately sometimes.

 

[Tomahawk]

Life is too short for that.

 

[DownWest]

Life is too short for that.

Not sure about equating bad wine with life on this thread..

I agree with JM about this. BS seems to have designed some effective boats built in steel to an unusual 'Origami' method. They may not be quite as hydrodynamic as others built with more conventional methods, but that is probably not important to the owners, compared to the speed of build. But, the basic method does not affect the way one needs to protect steel, apart from the simple fact that the hull is only around 30% of the build cost. Nicely rolled hulls need exactly the same protection, so no plusses or minusses on the build method.

BS does himself no favours on here (and elswhere) by constant repetition of the advantages of 'his' system, while running down other people and their choices, despite the fact that he is in a pretty small minority. Dodging pertinent questions is another problem.
Nothing wrong with 'Cruising on a small income' Annie and Pete Hill did it very nicely, but no illusions as to how it was the best way.

 

[TSB240]

Is this BS just finishing off?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=806038719605690&id=207334236142811

 

[SlowlyButSurely]

Is this BS just finishing off?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=806038719605690&id=207334236142811

That's impressive! How do you paint it?

 

[DownWest]

That's impressive! How do you paint it?

Please keep up, you need underwater paint AKA antifoul...or something similar.

 

[Brent Swain]

Is this BS just finishing off?

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=806038719605690&id=207334236142811

Impressive weld, especially as a friend, who does underwater welding, told me 'You cant see much thru the bubbles until you stop. Til then, you are basically guessing"
He said you have to use a full face mask ,as the field is so strong, that if you do it without a full face mask, all the fillings in your teeth fall out.

 

[Brent Swain]

That's impressive! How do you paint it?

You paint it at the next haul out. Until then, your zincs will protect it from corrosion, but not from fouling.

 

[Brent Swain]

I'll get my popcorn, I've never know anybody dig this deep and keep digging.

Deeper in what? Debt? I have never had a penny of bank debt in my life, while semi retiring in my mid 20's, to cruise 11 months a year. If that is what you dream of doing, best get your advice from someone who has. If not, then get your advice from my critics .

 

[Brent Swain]

I just spent several days cruising with a young lady aboard, who's plastic boat is insulated with glued in, closed cell foam. She was amazed at how dry my boat is inside, in minus temperatures, and has become a strong advocate of spray foam, planning on doing that to her boat, as soon as it gets warm enough. She has been telling others "Forget glued in foam .Spray foam it."

Glued in foam works for temperature, but not for dampness. On my last boat I tried it, and no matter how hard I tried to get an effective vapour barrier, it was constantly wet behind the sheet foam . That constantly keeps the dampness up. Spray foam eliminates that problem, especially when used with a good wood stove.

Friends in Sidney BC tried sheet foam, and half way thru they gave up, and did the rest with spray foam. They concluded that spray foaming would have been cheaper over all, not including the time they wasted.
Either way, you absolutely MUST get a lot of epoxy inside, before insulating.

 

[[70521]]

Deeper in what? Debt? I have never had a penny of bank debt in my life, while semi retiring in my mid 20's, to cruise 11 months a year. If that is what you dream of doing, best get your advice from someone who has. If not, then get your advice from my critics .

Sir, it is a old British saying. We are two nations divided by a language.

Personally, I feel that aluminium is the metal of choice.

 

[Brent Swain]

Not sure about equating bad wine with life on this thread..

I agree with JM about this. BS seems to have designed some effective boats built in steel to an unusual 'Origami' method. They may not be quite as hydrodynamic as others built with more conventional methods, but that is probably not important to the owners, compared to the speed of build. But, the basic method does not affect the way one needs to protect steel, apart from the simple fact that the hull is only around 30% of the build cost. Nicely rolled hulls need exactly the same protection, so no plusses or minusses on the build method.


Nothing wrong with 'Cruising on a small income' Annie and Pete Hill did it very nicely, but no illusions as to how it was the best way.

Search Silas Crosby
Hydrodynamic enough to sail from Hawaii to BC , the first half hard on the wind, in 21 days, along with other similarly fast passages. Hydrodynamic enough to frequently make over 1,000 miles to windward in 6 days. Hydrodynamic enough to sail from BC to South of Hawaii in 14 days, and to Hawaii in 15 days , several times.
I think eliminating so many feet of chines in rough water helps the hydrodynamics considerably, over a boat with far more full length chines, with rough water flowing across them, a drastic increase in drag.
For an origami hull and decks ,which was built for under $17 K , friends have been quoted $250K for a round bilged one. Origami reduces the time to build a hard chine hull by 90%, not a minor expense saving ,at shop rates.

Annie Hill said, if they had been aware of my boats, they would have been mentioned in their book.

 

[Brent Swain]

Sir, it is a old British saying. We are two nations divided by a language.

Personally, I feel that aluminium is the metal of choice.

Only for the rich, and for those who assume all cruisers are rich!
Yes ,aluminium is an excellent boat building material ; for the rich!
The difference for the not so rich, is several years cruising funds.
The mounties have had built several 50 ft aluminium catamarans here. Fizzling and corroding away, some hull plate looking like Swiss cheese.
Origami methods have worked well in aluminium.

 

[[70521]]

Only for the rich, and for those who assume all cruisers are rich!
Yes ,aluminium is an excellent boat building material ; for the rich!
The difference for the not so rich, is several years cruising funds.
The mounties have had built several 50 ft aluminium catamarans here. Fizzling and corroding away, some hull plate looking like Swiss cheese.
Origami methods have worked well in aluminium.

I am far from rich, and while I would need to win the Lotto to find a new aluminium boat or any boat for that matter, there are a number of boats available on the second hand market.

 

[Brent Swain]

I am far from rich, and while I would need to win the Lotto to find a new aluminium boat or any boat for that matter, there are a number of boats available on the second hand market.

The most important thing to know when buying a metal boat is what's happening under the foam insulation.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Search Silas Crosby
Hydrodynamic enough to sail from Hawaii to BC , the first half hard on the wind, in 21 days, along with other similarly fast passages. Hydrodynamic enough to frequently make over 1,000 miles to windward in 6 days. Hydrodynamic enough to sail from BC to South of Hawaii in 14 days, and to Hawaii in 15 days , several times.
I think eliminating so many feet of chines in rough water helps the hydrodynamics considerably, over a boat with far more full length chines, with rough water flowing across them, a drastic increase in drag.
For an origami hull and decks ,which was built for under $17 K , friends have been quoted $250K for a round bilged one. Origami reduces the time to build a hard chine hull by 90%, not a minor expense saving ,at shop rates.

Annie Hill said, if they had been aware of my boats, they would have been mentioned in their book.

1000 miles to windward in 6 days is 166 miles MADE GOOD in each 24 hours. Assuming a tacking angle of 90 degrees that’s 230 miles through the water in each 24 hours before you allow for leeway... this means you need to be averaging over ten knots for 24 hours a day for six days.

I’ll allow others to comment about what they think of this claim.

I wonder in what context Annie Hill would have mentioned the boats?

 

[Mister E]

The most important thing to know when buying a metal boat is what's happening under the foam insulation.

Where you have added your hand made stuff welded to the decks after the boat was made and insulated, the answer is not a lot of insulation.
Maybe this is where you get so many fires from? or did you use the proper foam for the job?

How do you seal your engine room airtight having cut a big hole in the side to run a welder ?
This on a boat that requires so little to keep it working.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

1000 miles to windward in 6 days is 166 miles MADE GOOD in each 24 hours. Assuming a tacking angle of 90 degrees that’s 230 miles through the water in each 24 hours before you allow for leeway... this means you need to be averaging over ten knots for 24 hours a day for six days.

I’ll allow others to comment about what they think of this claim.

I wonder in what context Annie Hill would have mentioned the boats?

God moves in mysterious ways.

 

[dom]

1000 miles to windward in 6 days is 166 miles MADE GOOD in each 24 hours. Assuming a tacking angle of 90 degrees that’s 230 miles through the water in each 24 hours before you allow for leeway... this means you need to be averaging over ten knots for 24 hours a day for six days.

I’ll allow others to comment about what they think of this claim.

No idea what the boat was, but you're right, that's quick and esp so on an average cruising boat. Quite doable mind on a racing boat; take a beast like the old VO70 -- 14.5tons of sheer power with a whopping 42ton righting moment -- with top sails and a top crew, one could easily think about 12+kts STW in 12kn TWS.

In the heavy cruising world; such claims constantly appear and who knows? There might even be a leprechaun at the end of an Irish rainbow!

 

[DownWest]

1000 miles to windward in 6 days is 166 miles MADE GOOD in each 24 hours. Assuming a tacking angle of 90 degrees that’s 230 miles through the water in each 24 hours before you allow for leeway... this means you need to be averaging over ten knots for 24 hours a day for six days.

I’ll allow others to comment about what they think of this claim.

I wonder in what context Annie Hill would have mentioned the boats?

Hull speed of 10kts with a slippery boat would = water line of 50ft? Thought that was rather bigger that was being discussed?

Annie Hill is currently building her next live aboard, in wood ;o)