Steel boat as a long-term liveaboard (in a warm(er) climate).

[rotrax]

OK Brent, photograph your plans and post them here.

If you do, you will give our authoritive experts who look on this forum the opertunity to comment-for good or ill.

If you dont, any credibility you have gained may be lost.

In post #518 you state quite clearly that you are happy to show your plans.

It is now time to put up or shut up.

 

[atol]

hey i'm late to the party!
here is a brent swain boat owned by a friend clive hammond built in BC canada in the late 70's,"Nuttin wong",that i have bumped into in 3 different continents over the last 30 years on 2 circumnavigations,been partially sunk twice,but still going strong!

i personnaly can't see a problem with the design technique of swain boats,as mine built in russia a 63ft aluminium uses the same technique of the 5 chines pulled together welded,then bulkheads and stringers added after ,super strong,easy to build etc mine came out of nizny novograd from the same factory as the ground effect flying boats came from using the same technique!
not sure how many yachts are tested by hitting the water at 100knots with 25000hp attached but if anything it shows the design/technique has credibility.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/...ter-storm-in-hand-built-boat-in-northwest-arm

 

[rotrax]

As you say, late to the party.

BS has made plenty of claims which, to several of our really experienced forum members in actual voyaging and boat design appear not to stack up.

When challenged, most times the reply has been barely relevent and often on another unrelated matter.

If what half of what BS maintains is true and factual-respect-super hero.

But we only have BS's word for it.

Those who know him are not posting on here in his defence! What can be found about him in the online media is not always complimentary.

Some of his claims and derogatory remarks dont stack up, even to me with only 15 years sailing experience.

 

[Brent Swain]

As to the original title to this thread ,anyone can compare the effect of colour on a boat in the sun. Just walk thru a parking lot on a warm sunny day ,and feel how hot the surface of white car is, then a black one ,grey one, etc. The difference is huge.

 

[Brent Swain]

hey i'm late to the party!
here is a brent swain boat owned by a friend clive hammond built in BC canada in the late 70's,"Nuttin wong",that i have bumped into in 3 different continents over the last 30 years on 2 circumnavigations,been partially sunk twice,but still going strong!

i personnaly can't see a problem with the design technique of swain boats,as mine built in russia a 63ft aluminium uses the same technique of the 5 chines pulled together welded,then bulkheads and stringers added after ,super strong,easy to build etc mine came out of nizny novograd from the same factory as the ground effect flying boats came from using the same technique!
not sure how many yachts are tested by hitting the water at 100knots with 25000hp attached but if anything it shows the design/technique has credibility.

http://thechronicleherald.ca/metro/...ter-storm-in-hand-built-boat-in-northwest-arm

What they are saying is ,that which has had zero serious structural problems at sea and in some severe torture tests, over many decades, is not strong enough!
So who has the credibility problems?
Meta Strongall ,and Van de Statd , as well as Graham Shannon and others have also very successful boats using origami techniques.

 

[rotrax]

As to the original title to this thread ,anyone can compare the effect of colour on a boat in the sun. Just walk thru a parking lot on a warm sunny day ,and feel how hot the surface of white car is, then a black one ,grey one, etc. The difference is huge.

Now answer post #521 Brent-thats what we are waiting for.

 

[Brent Swain]

I used google and came up with SA. And a few of his boats. I think there are two for sale if your interested.
I'd never heard of him. Turns out he is from Comox, not far away from me. I think I have actually seen a couple of his boats around.

So ask the owners what they think of them, and if they would trade for any stock plastic boat, That would give a far more reliable assessment than those who have never seen ,owned, sailed or crossed an ocean in one( as is the case with almost all my critics.)Then ask them if I am 5ft5 and 145 pounds, as Bob Perry's "extremely accurate" calculations claim ( calculations which he charges $175 an hour for)

 

[rotrax]

So ask the owners what they think of them, and if they would trade for any stock plastic boat, That would give a far more reliable assessment than those who have never seen ,owned, sailed or crossed an ocean in one( as is the case with almost all my critics.)Then ask them if I am 5ft5 and 145 pounds, as Bob Perry's "extremely accurate" calculations claim ( calculations which he charges $175 an hour for)

Now answer post 521 Brent. Procrastination will do you no good.

If you dont do what you said you were happy to do in post #518, and show your plans/drawings you will lose all credibility.

 

[dom]

Now answer post 521 Brent. Procrastination will do you no good.

If you dont do what you said you were happy to do in post #518, and show your plans/drawings you will lose all credibility.

We've got to be careful here, or we risk the appearance of a mob targeting someone who dares to be different, push the cost boundaries, and take risks few of us would even contemplate.

But if we go down this route, what next?

1. No business advice please unless the forum has indisputable proof of disposable assets > £5m, £10m, £20m?
2. Oh, and no racing tips unless the mods can verify all credentials first, including a top-three place in a large national class. Same for electronics advice.
3. And of course no trip anecdotes please without a Coastguard signed AIS certificate in triplicate.
4. Then there's the due diligence; what about poor old JM when the Post Office tells him to fit an industrial sized post box? Not to mention his irritation at being confined to the upstairs of his house as 20 forum admin-elves cheerily grind away below!

No disrespect to you rotrax, for you're a sensible chap. And in many ways this forum is a great resource. But surely we cannot adopt a position that a poster is guilty until proven innocent, a notion so contrary to British principles of jurisprudence and seamanship?

 

[[70521]]

We've got to be careful here, or we risk the appearance of a mob targeting someone who dares to be different, push the cost boundaries, and take risks few of us would even consider.

Oh I don't know. In my day job I am required to review documentary evidence to justify claims made by manufacturers. 99.99% of people who I request the evidence from are more than willing to share what they have done; a none response is always very telling.

 

[AndrewB]

OK Brent, photograph your plans and post them here.

If you do, you will give our authoritive experts who look on this forum the opertunity to comment-for good or ill.

BS would be ill-advised to post plans or outlines here now, as they would, as your remark implies, just add more fuel to the flames.

That yachts to his designs exist is indisputable, so I guess we can take it on trust plans must exist. Whether they are good is a separate matter. The point that some of his claims appear exaggerated has been clearly enough made.

 

[coenvanwyk]

Fascinating bit of sociology, this thread. Brent is usually quite good at provoking, and this time he really set the feathers fluttering. But the fundamental questions asked by the original poster remains largely unanswered in the hissy fits.

 

[Tranona]

Fascinating bit of sociology, this thread. Brent is usually quite good at provoking, and this time he really set the feathers fluttering. But the fundamental questions asked by the original poster remains largely unanswered in the hissy fits.

Think the OP sensibly listened to the earlier responses and bought a GRP boat!

The later part of the thread is largely unconnected to the original question and took on a life of its own!

 

[solent clown]

Fascinating bit of sociology, this thread. Brent is usually quite good at provoking, and this time he really set the feathers fluttering. But the fundamental questions asked by the original poster remains largely unanswered in the hissy fits.

sociology. Now there is an "ology" almost entirely without fascination.

 

[DownWest]

Fascinating bit of sociology, this thread. Brent is usually quite good at provoking, and this time he really set the feathers fluttering. But the fundamental questions asked by the original poster remains largely unanswered in the hissy fits.

Well, yes. But Brent does not answer the questions. As for the OP, not a lot of answers. Probably he is now looking elsewhere for info. Well built and maintained steel boats manage well. Brent's boats are no different. OK, they might be a bit quicker to build, makes no difference on long term durability. It is still a small market.

 

[GHA]

Fascinating bit of sociology, this thread. Brent is usually quite good at provoking, and this time he really set the feathers fluttering. But the fundamental questions asked by the original poster remains largely unanswered in the hissy fits.

It's actually been covered a few times hidden away in the dogmatic responses - steel will likely be cooler when it's hot and warmer when it's cold, and has a fairly precise range of parameters to tick before it really has major benefits over mass produced plastic.

 

[Brent Swain]

BS would be ill-advised to post plans or outlines here now, as they would, as your remark implies, just add more fuel to the flames.

That yachts to his designs exist is indisputable, so I guess we can take it on trust plans must exist. Whether they are good is a separate matter. The point that some of his claims appear exaggerated has been clearly enough made.

I have been warned by the moderator not to post such things here, as it is considered promotion. Any attempts I have made to post drawings here, have not worked.
No one has had any problems building to the drawings, with good results, and very few questions, as one can see on the origamiboats site.
What exaggerations do you refer to?

 

[Brent Swain]

It's actually been covered a few times hidden away in the dogmatic responses - steel will likely be cooler when it's hot and warmer when it's cold, and has a fairly precise range of parameters to tick before it really has major benefits over mass produced plastic.

Plastic boats can also be made far more comfortable, both in cold climes and warm, by adequate spray foam insulation. A grossly underused factor is that a couple of inches of spray foam in most plastic boats under 40 feet can make them unsinkable. Sure, a boat full of water is no fun, but it leaves you more stuff to work with than having it sink, and leave you in mid ocean in a rubber ducky.
Friends living in stock plastic boats are having a far more comfortable winter this season, having added a lot of extra insulation since last winter.

 

[Brent Swain]

Fascinating bit of sociology, this thread. Brent is usually quite good at provoking, and this time he really set the feathers fluttering. But the fundamental questions asked by the original poster remains largely unanswered in the hissy fits.

My responses are an appropriate response to; any time anyone mentions steel, those who have no long term experience with it , immediately attack it and promote plastic as their only option. Any thinking outside the box is immediately attacked, automatically .Any attempt to show the other side of the picture, by someone who has enough experience to know what it is, also gets attacked automatically, by the 'Groupthink only" crowd.
Some here have been mentioning pictures I have not been able to post here, which have been deleted from other sites, so that only the attacks will be read, and my responses deleted, proof that they are trolls, who troll and stalk me across the internet, to sabotage any passing on of info I have accumulated over more than 40 years of building, designing, maintaining , and living board steel boats . Then, they make up lies and more personally insulting lies, invented by someone who has never met me, or seen or sailed on any of the boats he is attacking, yet continues to troll his way across the internet stalking every post I make. Seems they want to block the exchange of any, and all long term experience based info on steel boats.
Not good for any discussion .
I remember a time when the internet was great place to make suggestions and post possible solutions to people's problems. Sadly, those days seem to be drawing to a close, with trolls sabotaging that use of the internet. I have seen other designers and builders , give up passing on free info on the internet, for that reason.Others deliberately try to sabotage the internet, as a source of such info, so they can be paid up to $175 an hour for such info, and put themselves on a pedestal.
Some of them have zero hands on practical experience, just lots of manipulating experience.
Sad!

 

[Brent Swain]

Well, yes. But Brent does not answer the questions. As for the OP, not a lot of answers. Probably he is now looking elsewhere for info. Well built and maintained steel boats manage well. Brent's boats are no different. OK, they might be a bit quicker to build, makes no difference on long term durability. It is still a small market.

Bob Perry has designed a 37 footer using traditional frames and 1/8th inch plate ,a boat I met a couple of summers ago, who's owner said it weighed 36,000 lbs. A big contrast with an origami boat that size weighing under 20,000 lbs. The lack of framing lets one go for thicker plate ,and still have a lighter hull, which is a lot more forgiving of any corrosion problems. I have seen many 1/8th inch hulls which have been lost to preventable corrosion, which could have been saved, had they had thicker hull plate to begin with.
On other sites, some have compared the difference origami gives, is up to a year of extra work for the home builder, not small change, by any stretch of the imagination.