Steel boat as a long-term liveaboard (in a warm(er) climate).

[Brent Swain]

Well I was hoping that I would get an answer from the man himself.
You're saying that for big production runs, rather than one offs or DIY builds, steel boats are more expensive to produce than GRP ones (I don't know if BS agrees with that).
I'm sure you are right. But equally, the majority of people, and that includes the users and readers of this forum, are perfectly happy with GRP. If steel costs more, then you need to settle for a smaller or older boat for the same money. Not a good tradeoff for those of us who don't expect to be mowing down whales on regular basis.

Outdated building methods will make steel far more expensive than it need be.
Steel for a 36 is around $9K.Price how much the plastic costs for a new plastic boat that size,materials alone.
Now price the $300K for the mold, then the time to lay one up, compared to the 2 days it has taken me to put a 36 ft hull together, or the week for the entire shell. Then the cost of an inside building site for plastic.

 

[Uricanejack]

Its interesting that this comment was on another forum. I've never bothered to go looking for what other people say about him but I was struck by how my own conclusions after reading what he has written are remarkably similar to the description in the quote below.
I don't know what the truth is, but if it was me being described, and it was all lies I'd be pretty keen to set the record straight. I've got some sailing contacts in many parts of the world. If Brent would care to share where he is right now I can make enquiries and see if someone I know can call and say hello and report back?

I'd also be interested to see some copies of the plans for one of his boats. This is a genuine request and sharing the outline drawings shouldn't be considered advertising - especially when I've asked to see them. Obviously it wouldn't be right to publish the detailed drawings in a public place, but the basic drawings would suffice for us to see the idea...

If you don't know what the truth is.
Why would you re post some accusations about this guy. which may or may not be true form some other unknown site.

Based on his comments here. I wouldn't recommend anyone take navigation or fire fighting advice from the guy ether. But posting accusations made by some unnamed party from some other site which you don't know are true. Is a bit bellow the belt.

 

[john_morris_uk]

If you don't know what the truth is.
Why would you re post some accusations about this guy. which may or may not be true form some other unknown site.

Based on his comments here. I wouldn't recommend anyone take navigation or fire fighting advice from the guy ether. But posting accusations made by some unnamed party from some other site which you don't know are true. Is a bit bellow the belt.

If you say so.

I was pointing out that I’d discovered the conclusions I’d come to matched those of other people. I was also trying to be honest and say that we can’t know for certain about someone who appears on an Internet forum but who we’ve never met.

I’ve also offered to try and find someone in his locality meet up with him so we can find out the truth.

I’ve also asked for some drawings so we can look at these claims of his properly. (I’ve got a very good friend who I sail in company with sometimes who is a very experienced and practical person, and who I would like to get his professional opinion of these claims of Brent Swain. David’s yard built Richard Branson’s “Virgin Atlantic Challenger” http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/29/newsid_2520000/2520929.stm but he sold tgat business and he’s just retired from building rather larger ships. He sails Balkis a 36’ classic that’s crossed the Atlantic at least four times. ). Brent will probably claim that David knows nothing about yacht design or building.

I’m trying to be as fair as possible.

 

[AndrewB]

Brent, you undertook to stop talking about ‘my boats’ and ‘my designs’ as (despite your protestations that you don’t need the money) it is effectively advertising your business. The thread (and all your posts on the subject) are in danger of being removed from public view if you persist. (And for the sake of openness, I am one of the moderators of these forums.)
Read more at http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...-warm(er)-climate)/page24#F0MthCRbVT8XzT74.99

Rtboss1 - PLEASE do not freeze or delete this thread.

As the long time owner of a steel boat (not a BS) myself, I have found a good deal of interest, including parts of BS's contributions. The 'advertising' in this thread is of an acceptable nature forming part of the discussion and no worse than has been tolerated in the past from other contributors.

I am reminded of another eccentric but better known steel yacht designer, Bruce Roberts, who made interesting but often very opinionated contributions to a number of forums, who was ultimately hounded off in this sort of way. It was a loss.

 

[john_morris_uk]

Rtboss1 - please do not freeze or delete this thread. As the long time owner of a steel boat (NOT a BS) I hav

Rtboss1 isn’t a moderator. It was me (as a moderator) who said that there’d been a discussion about freezing the thread or even removing it from public view. We’ve decided that it will stay unless it starts seriously breaking forum rules.

 

[lpdsn]

If you don't know what the truth is.
Why would you re post some accusations about this guy. which may or may not be true form some other unknown site.

Based on his comments here. I wouldn't recommend anyone take navigation or fire fighting advice from the guy ether. But posting accusations made by some unnamed party from some other site which you don't know are true. Is a bit bellow the belt.

Not quite an unknown site. Sailing Anarchy. They've been engaged in threads with BS for far longer than people on YBW have. You can go there and ask about him and get the feedback from the people who made those comments*. If you're on the west coast of Canada yourself, as I think you are if my understanding is correct, you could even meet some of the people involved.

Edit: * If you go to Sailing Anarchy, go to the Cruising Anarchy forum rather than Sailing Anarchy itself. Sailing Anarchy is more like the lounge albeit on vaguely sailing related topics.

 

[rotrax]

I followed john morris uk and searched our old mate BS.

He has been asked many, many times for drawings and tech info and it appears none has ever been forthcoming.

If a tenth of the comments about him are true, he is a line shooter par exellence.

On the market his boats dont fetch much money.

I get the feeling he has found the YBW forums and is speaking to a fresh audience.

Many, on 3 other forums he has contributed to, say he never answers the direct question, but beats the drum for his own agenda and obscures the issue with non relevant stuff.

We have seen that here, have we not..................................

 

[Deleted member 36384]

I followed john morris uk and searched our old mate BS.

He has been asked many, many times for drawings and tech info and it appears none has ever been forthcoming.

If a tenth of the comments about him are true, he is a line shooter par exellence.

On the market his boats dont fetch much money.

I get the feeling he has found the YBW forums and is speaking to a fresh audience.

Many, on 3 other forums he has contributed to, say he never answers the direct question, but beats the drum for his own agenda and obscures the issue with non relevant stuff.

We have seen that here, have we not..................................

This thread is like one of these emails accidentally sent to everyone in a corporation. All day long people reply to all saying don’t reply to all.

 

[lpdsn]

This thread is like one of these emails accidentally sent to everyone in a corporation. All day long people reply to all saying don’t reply to all.

Have you tried blowing on your paint to dry it?

 

[Uricanejack]

If you say so.

I was pointing out that I’d discovered the conclusions I’d come to matched those of other people. I was also trying to be honest and say that we can’t know for certain about someone who appears on an Internet forum but who we’ve never met.

I’ve also offered to try and find someone in his locality meet up with him so we can find out the truth.

I’ve also asked for some drawings so we can look at these claims of his properly. (I’ve got a very good friend who I sail in company with sometimes who is a very experienced and practical person, and who I would like to get his professional opinion of these claims of Brent Swain. David’s yard built Richard Branson’s “Virgin Atlantic Challenger” http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/29/newsid_2520000/2520929.stm but he sold tgat business and he’s just retired from building rather larger ships. He sails Balkis a 36’ classic that’s crossed the Atlantic at least four times. ). Brent will probably claim that David knows nothing about yacht design or building.

I’m trying to be as fair as possible.

Fair enough

 

[Uricanejack]

I followed john morris uk and searched our old mate BS.

He has been asked many, many times for drawings and tech info and it appears none has ever been forthcoming.

If a tenth of the comments about him are true, he is a line shooter par exellence.

On the market his boats dont fetch much money.

I get the feeling he has found the YBW forums and is speaking to a fresh audience.

Many, on 3 other forums he has contributed to, say he never answers the direct question, but beats the drum for his own agenda and obscures the issue with non relevant stuff.

We have seen that here, have we not..................................

I used google and came up with SA. And a few of his boats. I think there are two for sale if your interested.
I'd never heard of him. Turns out he is from Comox, not far away from me. I think I have actually seen a couple of his boats around.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

YOU, sir, are the one, not me, that is doing the moaning. I put BS on 'ignore' a long time back you might care to say hello to him there.

Oh! Robin, you have become so sad. I am not interested in BS

 

[Mr Cassandra]

If you say so.

I was pointing out that I’d discovered the conclusions I’d come to matched those of other people. I was also trying to be honest and say that we can’t know for certain about someone who appears on an Internet forum but who we’ve never met.

I’ve also offered to try and find someone in his locality meet up with him so we can find out the truth.

I’ve also asked for some drawings so we can look at these claims of his properly. (I’ve got a very good friend who I sail in company with sometimes who is a very experienced and practical person, and who I would like to get his professional opinion of these claims of Brent Swain. David’s yard built Richard Branson’s “Virgin Atlantic Challenger” http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/june/29/newsid_2520000/2520929.stm but he sold tgat business and he’s just retired from building rather larger ships. He sails Balkis a 36’ classic that’s crossed the Atlantic at least four times. ). Brent will probably claim that David knows nothing about yacht design or building.

I’m trying to be as fair as possible.

Is it true what they say about you on another forum?

 

[Robin]

Oh! Robin, you have become so sad. I am not interested in BS

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[dom]

I’ve also offered to try and find someone in his locality meet up with him so we can find out the truth.

I’ve also asked for some drawings so we can look at these claims of his properly....

I’m trying to be as fair as possible.

Robustly challenge another poster; fair enough.

Play the man not the ball; well this is an internet forum. Bring SA into the equation – gunfights are de rigueur over there and the protagonists can sort it out huddled on the same side deck of a Saturday morning!

Demand evidence of his boat plans, passport stamps and claim his old 70s Kodak Instamatic photos are fuzzy. Come off it, this isn’t a court!

Then threaten to ban the guy for advertising his wares …cue John McEnroe

I’ve just Googled Comox and if anybody seriously makes an “All because the lady Loves Black Magic” trip to Vancouver, followed by a Bear Grylls to Comox …well I’ll buy a round for the entire Cherbourg contingent. Happy to do that anyway!

And Brent, not sure I believe all the stories, but given the pasting you’ve withstood on here …well I’d no longer bet against you and your little welded contraption coming out the back-end of a big storm.

And fair dos if you did.

 

[Mr Cassandra]

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Thank you, for proving a point

 

[john_morris_uk]

Robustly challenge another poster; fair enough.

Play the man not the ball; well this is an internet forum. Bring SA into the equation – gunfights are de rigueur over there and the protagonists can sort it out huddled on the same side deck of a Saturday morning!

Demand evidence of his boat plans, passport stamps and claim his old 70s Kodak Instamatic photos are fuzzy. Come off it, this isn’t a court!

Then threaten to ban the guy for advertising his wares …cue John McEnroe

I’ve just Googled Comox and if anybody seriously makes an “All because the lady Loves Black Magic” trip to Vancouver, followed by a Bear Grylls to Comox …well I’ll buy a round for the entire Cherbourg contingent. Happy to do that anyway!

And Brent, not sure I believe all the stories, but given the pasting you’ve withstood on here …well I’d no longer bet against you and your little welded contraption coming out the back-end of a big storm.

And fair dos if you did.

I have never demanded evidence of his cruising history. It’s Brent who keeps wheeling out the same old pictures and copies of visas or cruising permits or whatever as you if he’s going to prove a point.

I have a problem with someone who makes so many assertions that most any experienced sailor knows are wrong and possibly dangerous.

So why do I ask about plans now? Firstly a classic sign of someone being ‘economical with the truth’ is too much detail and too much protesting. Secondly (and as I’ve pointed out before) very experienced sailors are invariably rather less sure of themselves over some of the more complex things. They can also navigate and know about compasses and correcting them and checking them when out mid ocean. So a look at these plans and a few basic questions might help him raise the confidence level of those who read his posts. He says his ideas are revolutionary and radical and will enable people to live their dreams. Let’s have some meat on the bone and check these things out.

I’ll admit I’m not holding my breath.

 

[Brent Swain]

Robustly challenge another poster; fair enough.

Play the man not the ball; well this is an internet forum. Bring SA into the equation – gunfights are de rigueur over there and the protagonists can sort it out huddled on the same side deck of a Saturday morning!

Demand evidence of his boat plans, passport stamps and claim his old 70s Kodak Instamatic photos are fuzzy. Come off it, this isn’t a court!

Then threaten to ban the guy for advertising his wares …cue John McEnroe

I’ve just Googled Comox and if anybody seriously makes an “All because the lady Loves Black Magic” trip to Vancouver, followed by a Bear Grylls to Comox …well I’ll buy a round for the entire Cherbourg contingent. Happy to do that anyway!

And Brent, not sure I believe all the stories, but given the pasting you’ve withstood on here …well I’d no longer bet against you and your little welded contraption coming out the back-end of a big storm.

And fair dos if you did.

I'm in Heriot Bay on Quadra Island at the moment. Ask anyone here if I havent left the Comox mud flat in decades, or if I have lived for decades in someone's basement.The last time I lived full time in a house was after losing my first boat ,the winter of 1975-76. Took me from march 76 to September 76 to build my next boat.
For years I had the free use of the entire upstairs of a big house, huge flat screen TV and all. I was encouraged to use it. 3 days there, and I was bored to tears, and couldn't wait to get back on my boat. Couldn't imagine having to live that way
( over 300 channels and nothing worth watching.( Programed by "Experts")
Search Silas Crosby, for how they survive the Southern ocean and Gulf of Alaska storms. I 'd be happy to show you the plans , and let you meet someone very practical building one.

 

[Brent Swain]

On the last boat I built we used metal cutting skillsaw blades. One would cut about 35 feet of 3/16th plate, for not much more than the gas for a cutting torch, leaving a cut which looked like it had been done with a milling machine. It left cuts which let anyone with no skill with tools, do it perfect every time, saving far more time than the blades cost .I have since heard saw sharpeners can resharpen them .Should have tried that myself. About half a dozen blades could do a 36 footer. The lack of heat lets you work around foam.

 

[Brent Swain]

Is it true what they say about you on another forum?

Which other forum? Some ,who have never met me, or my friends ,and know nothing about my life style or where I cruise, have made up a lot of lies, and posted them continually , those who would never say such to my face , or make a bet on them.
On SA, I challenged the moderator to post the locations from which I had been posting the summer before last, etc. ( Haida Gwai ,the central BC coast ,etc) No response, eliminating his credibility, or that of the lies on that site.
Don't believe everything you read on the internet.
95% of statistics are made up on the spot!