PCUK
Well-Known Member
You install it in the air filter or air intake manifold, wherever is convenient. Connect a fuel feed from the spare outlet on the filter head and provide a 12 volt supply via a switch.
Starting a diesel
- Thread starter vic008
- Start date
Iliade
Well-Known Member
I have a vague memory of thermostarts being fed from the return line low pressure line. I guess the drip was initiated by the heater current. (It was, the original was the Lucas Thermo Start.)
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Carb Cleaner is usually (or at least it used to be*) trichloroethane 1.1.1. which doesn't ignite readily but can decay into something truly hideous like zyklon B when heated. 1,1,1-Trichloroethane
* Apparently trichloroethylene is experiencing a resurgence as a solvent. It ignites more readily but can be used a a general anaesthetic should you need to extract someone's teeth under lockdown.
________
Carb Cleaner is usually (or at least it used to be*) trichloroethane 1.1.1. which doesn't ignite readily but can decay into something truly hideous like zyklon B when heated. 1,1,1-Trichloroethane
* Apparently trichloroethylene is experiencing a resurgence as a solvent. It ignites more readily but can be used a a general anaesthetic should you need to extract someone's teeth under lockdown.
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Boater Sam
Well-Known Member
How about a Coffman starter? Gets the day off with a bang!
Sam.
Sam.
179580
Well-Known Member
Sorry guys if you missed my post yesterday, the question was Why don't all engines fit these heaters from new?
Refueler
Well-Known Member
OK ... don't know those ones
Spirit (of Glenans)
Well-Known Member
I think the majority of the vehicles used during WW2 were petrol engined, partly as there was no fiscal advantage to commercial transport at the time using diesel, hence not many diesel trucks, and partly to minimise complications in the lines of supply.
Spirit (of Glenans)
Well-Known Member
I'm intrigued by the requirement for horses?
Spirit (of Glenans)
Well-Known Member
Mine, touch wood, starts as soon as bubbles no longer emerge from the bleed nipple on the filter. The fuel is fed by gravity, so no pumping required.
Fitting a gravity "day tank" might help.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
Russian trucks etc. were generally gasoline till the development of arctic grade diesel - which nowadays is near enough DPK (dual purpose kerosine). Nothing to do with WW2 .... try your Transit van in -40 C winter !!
It was also that in Russia Soviet time - all pricing within USSR territories was false and could be set at what ever Govt decided.
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
Many of us have boats with older engines that were either designed not to need pre-heating, thus avoiding added complication and extra drain on batteries, or that pre-dated the general use of such systems. Remember that engines such as the Volvo Penta 200x series are mostly over 30 years old, but are still common and still going strong.
Refueler
Well-Known Member
mmmmmm my 4 series Perkins is way more than 30yrs old and was designed with the Thermostart ...
The original first '4' .... the 4-99 has a specific section in the manual about it.
I would suggest that Thermostarts like these were phased out FROM older to new designs as the glow plug evolved ...
179580
Well-Known Member
Thank you for replying, looking through the postings here someone has quoted a Thorneycroft/ BMC that some research confirms that it is circa 60 years old yet has a pre heat system. Cannot get my head around why some are equipped and others are not. surely a diesel is a diesel.
179580
Well-Known Member
But recent research on the Thorneycroft/BMC from the 60's suggests it was fitted with glow plugs to each cylinder. As I said in my original post the Tranny started from cold instantly whilst the Peugeot had to wait for the light to extinguish. Can't get my head around why.
rotrax
Well-Known Member
I like the sense of humour of whoever decided on the name!
While were were in Wellington a main sewer pipe was damaged by an earthquake.
Several septic tank companies were contracted to empty a tempory holding pond while the pipe was replaced.
Within a week or so a couple of the drivers had re-named their trucks.
One had big red letters on the front saying 'Turd Taxi' the other " Harry's tank service. Number one for number two's! "
They tell it like it is down there.
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
I think it's to avoid added complication and battery drain. If an engine depends on preheat, it's something else to go wrong!
rotrax
Well-Known Member
If you visit the Waterways Museum at Stoke Bruerne on the GUC you should find a Bollinders semi diesel engine which has a blow lamp built into it. It is aimed onto a platinum tube that takes the heat into the combustion space. To get one started the blowlamp was lit, then you got your eggs and bacon down your throat by which time the engine was ready to start.
IIRC that engine is over 100 years old.
I worked on a Ford Transit diesel that had a heater element in the intake. The driver squirted the starting juice right into it...............
LittleSister
Well-Known Member
Not a diesel, but while we're on the subject of engine starting palavers, Ken Wallis talked about an engine he got in the 1920s or 30s to power one of the several speedboats he built. They had aero propellors, rather than water screws.
He said the spark ignition engine was large, and too scary for the previous owner - it had no throttle so was full on all the time.
It did have manual ignition advance and return (as would have been common then) but no starter (ditto). The compression ratio, or perhaps size of the cylinder, was too great to be able to spin the engine over compression to start. The starting technique was to fully retard the ignition, turn the engine until it reached compression, then swing the prop backwards. The engine would spin the wrong way, backfire on the backwards compression stroke, which would bounce the engine into the correct rotation and over compression to start running!
(Though occasionally it would continue the original trajectory and start running backwards!)
He said the spark ignition engine was large, and too scary for the previous owner - it had no throttle so was full on all the time.
It did have manual ignition advance and return (as would have been common then) but no starter (ditto). The compression ratio, or perhaps size of the cylinder, was too great to be able to spin the engine over compression to start. The starting technique was to fully retard the ignition, turn the engine until it reached compression, then swing the prop backwards. The engine would spin the wrong way, backfire on the backwards compression stroke, which would bounce the engine into the correct rotation and over compression to start running!(Though occasionally it would continue the original trajectory and start running backwards!
)down...2 greens
Well-Known Member
Sounds fairly straightforward. Easiest plan would presumably be to mount it straight through the wall of the air intake, at 90 degrees to the inlet body, but should it be directed along the airflow path, towards the filter? I'll try to attach a pic of the engine if that helps to explain what I mean...
And while we're at it, I'm inclined to try a self-contained reservoir to keep the plumbing to a minimum - any suggestions for a suitable receptacle (or ideally pics/links, just so I can get the idea clear in my head) What should the pipe be made from?
Thanks!
black mercury
Well-Known Member
Generally, an indirect injection diesel will need to be preheated, a direct injection won't. Yes there will be exceptions, but an indirect injection diesel has a greater surface area that will initially absorb the heat generated by compression, a direct injection's combustion chamber is partly on top of the piston and doesn't have a pre combustion chamber's surface area. Most cars up to the late 90s had the indirect design due to it being quieter with less diesel knock and they had glow plugs fitted that protruded into the precombustion chamber. An exception being the Austin Rover diesel, hence the noise it made. Commercial vehicles didn't need to be as refined or quiet so it was acceptable for those to be fitted with direct injection diesels with the diesel being injected directly on top of the piston.
Then came common rail with electronic high pressure injectors in the late 90s. They are all direct injection but could be made more refined and quiet by the use of electronics with the injector firing numerous times per stroke. Most don't need glow plugs for starting (Mercedes for example is an exception) but use the glow plugs to reduce emissions during cold running and at different times throughout a journey. They may only need glow plugs for starting if the temperature was well below zero.
Your older pre 2000 transit was direct injection, your Peugeot xud was indirect. The volvo 200x range is direct, whereas Betas for example are indirect.
If an engine could do without any preheat it wasn't fitted such as the old Transit.
The indirect injection was quieter, more refined but at the expense of fuel efficiency. Hope this generalisation helps.
Spirit (of Glenans)
Well-Known Member
I seem to recall (anecdotally) that Mk1 or Mk2 Transits had some kind of reservoir for a gas that was released into the inlet manifold to aid cold starting.