Starter Yachts

Why do we fall for the marketing hype description of certain sizes of boat as "starter yachts"?

It's the same same with "starter homes" and "entry level" new cars. Can't we realise it's all a ploy by salesmen to make us immediately dissatisfied with the yacht/house/car we've just bought in the hope we will soon buy another more expensive one from them so we can look more experienced /mature (guillable?).

The owners of smaller yachts don't usually appear any younger or less experienced than those of large floating palaces, similarly the inhabitants of a new Barratt/Midas "starter home" estate usually includes its fair share of elderly downsizing while the more experienced and mature motorist is more likely to be satisfied with the "entry level" version of a particular model than the younger aspirational buyer who requires alloy wheels and designer seat trim etc, not to mention a larger less economical engine -
 
Well of course size matters. However the question is at what point does increasing size offset other differences between two designs. This is a matter that is unlikely to be resolved objectively.

For example, a small boat might have a high AVS, a snug cockpit, low windage, better handholds, narrower companionway, and be better bolted together from stronger materials than, say, a big AWB. If the two boats were the same length, you'd have no question over which one you'd rather take out in a blow. But how much bigger does the AWB, with all of its potential design flaws, have to get before it becomes the safer choice?


A second point is sheer strength. Accepting for a moment that our hypothetical boat will at some point be buried by a breaking wave and rolled, I would wager that a smaller boat can have overbuilt fittings and a better chance of survival intact, whereas the larger boat with its much larger forces imposed by its larger rig and keel, is unlikely to be as tank-like in construction. But I admit that this is based purely on intuition, and a counter-argument is that this situation does not occur with a larger boat.
 
Ubergeekian said:
........snip....

My point, such as it is, is that small boats are unnecessary now. It's possible to indulge a starter-sized interest in sailing for a modest amount by chartering: the decision to buy small has to be driven by precisely the same irrational motives which prompt some of us to buy bigger (Hey, 26' feels big to me. I started in the 70s).

So, having thought about it, I don't think there will be a significant market for small starter boats again - unless something happens to make big starter boats unaffordable.
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Much of what you have said are very true given the assumption that you want to live in a marina. The good thing about smaller boats is that you can keep your Centaur etc on a drying mooring for less than the price of a weeks charter and go sailing whenever you want. I am sure that for some people the sums say charter, but for many you can buy a boat for the price of a good mountainbike and run it for mobile phone money.
 
miko said:
Much of what you have said are very true given the assumption that you want to live in a marina. The good thing about smaller boats is that you can keep your Centaur etc on a drying mooring for less than the price of a weeks charter and go sailing whenever you want. I am sure that for some people the sums say charter, but for many you can buy a boat for the price of a good mountainbike and run it for mobile phone money.
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Indeed, and I have been doing that for 20 years. I think, though, that marinas and charters appeal to the same market - the sybaritic sailor (not that there's anything wrong with that). As a result we now see two parallel routes through sailing:

Traditional: Dinghy - > small yacht - > medium sized yacht -> big yacht

and

Comfortable: Flotilla holiday -> bareboat charter -> big yacht

Anyone who can afford a 42 footer isn't going to baulk at the marina fees, if that is their taste, so the two routes converge somewhere around the big boat stage.
 
Dear Bosun Higgs,

Have you not heard of Sjo Agg & her ilk? Your comparison between a Sadler 29 & a Bav 40 is simply a comparison between 2 big boats! Small is caprice/ corribee & similar.

The point is that the small boat can bob up & down on the waves rather than being battered by them. Many such really small boats have shown considerable ability to survive severe weather. Even the structural strength may well be greater as hull thickness relative to length may be much greater.

That is why I believe size does not necessarily equate to safety.
 
Ubergeekian said:
I agree with every word you wrote. I was specifically addressing those who want the marina lifestyle
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What is the "marina lifestyle"? I've chartered quite a few boats out of marinas, and my Grandad on one side used to keep his boat in a marina near his house, but I can't really see how the word "lifestyle" applies to them.

Unless you're talking about liveaboards? They could certainly be said to have a marina lifestyle, but they're very much a minority and don't seem especially relevant to this discussion on what boats people buy to start sailing.

If you mean something else, I'm genuinely curious what it is.

Pete
 
Searush said:
The point is that the small boat can bob up & down on the waves rather than being battered by them. Many such really small boats have shown considerable ability to survive severe weather. Even the structural strength may well be greater as hull thickness relative to length may be much greater.

That is why I believe size does not necessarily equate to safety.
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That was Patrick Ellam's theory, and led to the design of and Atlantic crossing by Sopranino. I don't have the book to hand, so I can't give an exact quote, but his basic idea was that instead of making yachts big and strong to withstand waves, you could also make them small and light to bob over them. The book is excellent and well worth reading.
 
prv said:
What is the "marina lifestyle"? I've chartered quite a few boats out of marinas, and my Grandad on one side used to keep his boat in a marina near his house, but I can't really see how the word "lifestyle" applies to them.
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Sloppy shorthand on my part for "Being able to walk aboard, security, car parks, that sort of thing".
 
Ubergeekian said:
That was Patrick Ellam's theory, and led to the design of and Atlantic crossing by Sopranino. I don't have the book to hand, so I can't give an exact quote, but his basic idea was that instead of making yachts big and strong to withstand waves, you could also make them small and light to bob over them. The book is excellent and well worth reading.
Click to expand...

Is he the bloke who did the atlantic in the 7 foot dingy?
 
fergie_mac66 said:
Is he the bloke who did the atlantic in the 7 foot dingy?
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Patrick Ellam? I don't think so. In the run up to Sopranino, though, he did all sorts of loony trips in small boats, including a night crossing of the channel in a sailing canoe in a F8, with a completely novice crew he found on the pier, hitchhiking to England.
 
5 foot 4inch not 7 foot

Ubergeekian said:
Patrick Ellam? I don't think so. In the run up to Sopranino, though, he did all sorts of loony trips in small boats, including a night crossing of the channel in a sailing canoe in a F8, with a completely novice crew he found on the pier, hitchhiking to England.
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ahh looked him up : the bloke I was thinking of is here :-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cornwall/5396576.stm

And the boat was only 5 foot 4in :eek:

Now thats a small starter boat !!
 
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