St. Malo to Paimpol (Learning)

[ChrisFromBavaria]

Having sailed in the med a couple of times I'm now looking forward to my first trip in brittany. Together with friends I've charted a berth at a frenchmans sailboat.
Since my goal is to learn about navigation in these areas I started to make some planning exercises on a trip from St. Malo to Paimpol:

The distance is about 40 nm. I'm assuming moderate easterly winds and good conditions.

Looking on the tidal flow atlas I can figure out that currents start to go westward 4 hours before H.W. Dover. Water is falling from H.W. in the St. Malo area at this time.
So I assume it would be a pretty good time to leave St. Malo just before high water or at high water to pick up the westward currents.

Assuming that entering Paimpol is only possible near high water we should arrive latest 4 hours before the next H.W. Dover (Water falling quickly). That means that we would have 10 to 12 hours to make the trip. Pretty enough time for 40 miles.

Questions on this:

Is this planning somehow feasible? How would you plan?

I've searched the internet for tide calculation freeware. I've found JTide (http://www.arachnoid.com/JTides/) but as I learned calculation based on British data is not possible due to legal reasons. Is there any free software or free source on the internet giving tidal data for Brittany for June 04?

How would you plan the trip if the weather forecast would be: westerly winds F4 to F5?





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[Mfc1955]

This may be a useful site for the area if you can use some schoolboy(girl) French translation

http://www.goldschmidt.org/spip/sommaire.php3

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[rich]

That means that we would have 10 to 12 hours to make the trip. Pretty enough time for 40 miles.
O buoy do you need lessons, the tide comes up for 6 hrs and goes out for 6 hrs????

<hr width=100% size=1>and the wind is never behind you. no offenc but just back from pub,HHic,,,<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by rich on 10/02/2004 23:56 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[john_morris_uk]

Part of your outline passage is correct. When you come and sail the N Britanny and CI coasts you will soon find that most passage planning is done on the basis of catching as much of the 'fair stream' as possible. Of course this means that your passage speed will be boat speed plus tide and the average cruising boat will achieve much better than 4 knots overv the ground. This means that you will often arrive at places when their is insufficient water to enter or conversely you need to lock out of somewhere and either wait for a fair tide, or accept the hit and make very little progress unitl the tide turns.

In the circumstances you outline I usually do what most people do - arrive early and kedge waiting for the tide to make enough to gain access to the port I am approaching. Or find a beach to swim off, or have a post lunch nap off - or whatever.

The more worrying aspect of your passagen planning outline is assuming a moderate Easterly wind. You might get it - but I can see pigs on the end of the runway with goggles on and chocks loosened. Winds in the Channel rarely seem to be in the direction you want them from. If we're cruising for fun we just go another direction or wait if the wind isn't right...

Regarding tidal streams, my strong recommendation would be to either get of an old almanac which will have the tidal streams shown pictorially hour by hour, or better still an Admiralty Tidal Stream Atlas for the area you are interested in; they are not expensive and they last for ever. I use Reeves Foulkes for this area - but thats just my personal preference.

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[brianhumber]

Always try to go with tide and for a first visit to the area try to go at neaps
As a stranger never approach these rocky tide restricted ports on a falling tide. Hang loose and if you are late go elsewhere, work out where you could anchor if you miss the tide or where you can run back to with the tide(in this case press on to anchor in shelter near Brehat or run back to St Q )
Settled NE winds occur with AntiC over the UK can occur but Westerlies are more like it. If you do not like overfalls and wind against tide effects stick to the Rance.
Having said that I have only had 3 or 4 really rough trips in this area (one was so bad 50kts+ we could not safely get into Lezaedrieux river so we ran back with the wind to St M) - in summer its a great place to cruise

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[Roberto]

I strongly agree with the need of having a set of tidal atlas, hour by hour tables: for the first trips I made in this area I wrote in pencil on the top of each table the hour it was referred to, day by day, so you can just browse the booklet and immediately follow the evolution of tidal set and drift, whatever else you may be doing aboard.

Here is a <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.snsm-jullouville.com/lesplus/courants.htm>tidal atlas </A> for that area, but I suggest you take a proper one. Ref is HW St Malo.

Have a nice trip, it is a wonderful area!



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[Magic_Sailor]

Chris

Some points that make planning a little simpler.

1. Provided you don't have a stiff easterly blowing, you can anchor off Paimpol and await entry.

2. The outer harbour does have 1m+ in it for quite some time before the lock opens and you can pick up a local mooring for a time.

3. St Quay Portrieux is just about 1 hour North, sheltered most of the way by a reef. St Q P has 24Hr access.

Hope thats helpful

Magic

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://practical-business.co.uk>Click for website!</A>

 

[tcm]

With that distance, the tides are a bit irrelevant - on a small boat you'll be at sea during almost an entire tidal cycle.

Paimpol dries, accessible +/- 2ish hours either side of HW. I'd look to set off to arrive at the start of the lockin, giving a nice window of 4 or more hours for things going wrong, engines not working and so forth and still get in. Not being able to get in would be my main concern.

For the streams, esp with a westerly wind, it might be an idea to go out earlier, around HW st malo, so that the tidal streams are slack or even with the wind and a bit smoother for motoring out than later when the W wind would be against east-flowing tide.

Need to buy proper tidal srtream atlases and so on for navigation around there - otherwise you may find yourself with only the information for when it goes beutifully, and not enough information for if you have to go elsewhere.

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[Chris_Robb]

These forums are an area where poeple can share knowledge - and are very good at it.

I am however worried that your knowledge of navigation is too limited for these waters - which are probably some of the most difficult in the world.

I may be wrong about your knowledge - appologies in advance if I am - but take navigation VERY seriously especially around Spring tides.

You might however try for StQuaie Pontriuex initially, as it does not dry out, and so a little less critical in planning. Then go to Pampol from nearer by, when you can leave on a rising tide and hopefully go straight in.

Good Luck - and don't trust in God too much!!!

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[milltech]

You may also find useful "Sailing Todays" rather crap presentation of Paimpol (but with a nice aerial picture), May 1998 issue if you can find one.

Also Yachting Monthlys brilliant one, "Pull-out chart No. 6" from June 1999. The waypoints on the latter were a real comfort to my own navigation when my course change appeared to be aiming directly at jagged spiky rocks!


<hr width=100% size=1>John
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.allgadgets.co.uk>http://www.allgadgets.co.uk</A>

 

[brianhumber]

Do not want to be a clever clogs but St Q P is back southwards from Paimpol. Next stop North from Paimpol fairway by is CI

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[Magic_Sailor]

Hi Brian.

Ouch!! Your right. But same rules apply if not more so inside the Baie de Paimpol.

I got muddled with ....bugger....I can't remember the name...I'm sure it begins with a P as well....that's it...Binic. (Just checked me almanac!

Cheers

Magic

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[ChrisFromBavaria]

Thank you Chris indeed a really good advice.
But as I wrote I've chartered only a berth and everything will be cared of by an experienced skipper. I just want to prepare myself to improve my knowlegde in advance, to make most out of it.

For sure I'm not going out there on my own even after this first experience in June.

Christian


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[Chris_Robb]

Christian - really is worth doing the Yatchmasters shorebased course over next winter. This is far more fun if you can get a couple of mates to do it with you.

Hope the weather is good for you.

Chris

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[ChrisFromBavaria]

Well, I have to admitt that I've done the German "equivalent" to that. It's some years ago now, but I remember it as very theoretical on tidal issues and focused on getting one to give correct answers in the written examination. Maybe that's ok because lots of people do all their trips in the med or in the baltic sea for their whole sailing live and never have to care about tidal atlases.

I assume that's very different in nothern France and the UK where tides play a major role.

Christian

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[tcm]

Re: assuming moderate easterlies

This is a very handy assumption isn't it? How about assuming a more realistic SW 4-5? There's a hot chance that jimi will be out the same weekend, so you should have a plan for F7-8 NW.

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[BrendanS]

Re: assuming moderate easterlies

or if Zefender is out plan for a F8 N.

<hr width=100% size=1>There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."

 

[tcm]

Re: assuming moderate easterlies

I belive that i am almost entirely to blame for matchmaking yourself as crew for zefender, and I'm very very sorry, honest I am.

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[BrendanS]

Re: assuming moderate easterlies

Barking mad he is!!

or at least his brother Pat is. Pat now has his own yacht, and I'm invited for a cruise! Later this year. Suckers for punishment the pair of em. I will make his boat plane!

Got close on Zef's, but now I've got the hang of these wind powered things, I reckon I've got it sussed. Just need a bit more wind and more of those sails things up.

PS forgive you for matchmaking. Don't forgive you for wimping out.

<hr width=100% size=1>There is no such thing as "fun for the whole family."

 

[qsiv]

Ah! Binic - one of my favourites, and whom to a patisserie that was voted the best in all France (at least it was a couple of years ago).

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