SSB any good for weather?

[kalanka]

I have recently sailed from Ireland to Portugal. For a while I was 3-400 miles from land and lost all Navtex forecasts for 2 or 3 days. This wasn't unexpected but I am looking at other means of getting forecasts when in the middle of an ocean and understand that SSB broadcasts could be expected to be received 1000 miles from the transmitter.

I have looked at some of the available advice and am confused. Is an SSB receiver a genuinely valuable addition to the boat as far as weather data is concerned? Could I expect to get this by voice transmissions or do I have to go though what sounds like the laborious business of downloading files to a PC? Is this technology on its way out?

Is there a better alternative to consider?

Thanks!

 

[Ariadne]

HF & MF weather broadcasts are still out there and broadcast globally.You can buy a HF/MF receiver and aerial quite cheaply, get some weatherfax software and off you go.

You could also use Iridium and do what most of do, which is text a daily position to a friend (who can read a weather forecast!) and get them to text you the forecast and routing info.

In spite of what you may hear/see/ be told in Europe, SSBs are used a huge ammount everywhere else, we use ours more now than ever. You will daily nets all over the place giving local weather, sea conditions, as well as position reports and safety information.

 

[GHA]

Look on eBay for a degen 1103, great little radio, used mine cross Atlantic with a laptop and jvcomm software and more recently just with a nexus 7 tablet sitting beside the radio with a wfax app across Bissau. Worked fine. You might need to fiddle about with some wire as an antenna but not difficult. I would put it high up the list for offshore, even if you have a say phone, wfax charts give a much better big picture than grips I find.
Schedule here..
www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/rfax.pdf

 

[Roberto]

radio with a wfax app across Bissau.

Is "Bissau", Guinea Bissau ? If so may I ask a couple of questions by PM ?

 

[GHA]

Is "Bissau", Guinea Bissau ? If so may I ask a couple of questions by PM ?

Damn android spell check!
Biscay I'm afraid. And sat phone, not say phone.

The wfax app works surprising well though

 

[Pye_End]

Look on eBay for a degen 1103, great little radio, used mine cross Atlantic with a laptop and jvcomm software and more recently just with a nexus 7 tablet sitting beside the radio with a wfax app across Bissau. Worked fine. You might need to fiddle about with some wire as an antenna but not difficult. I would put it high up the list for offshore, even if you have a say phone, wfax charts give a much better big picture than grips I find.
Schedule here..
www.nws.noaa.gov/om/marine/rfax.pdf

Which app are you using?

 

[GHA]

Which app are you using?

This one. .

http://www.wolphi.com/marine-apps/hf-weather-fax

 

[oldvarnish]

If you are able to interpret synoptic charts, then these are available via SSB. To view them on a computer, you have to connect the SSB to a laptop with decoding software (there are free versions)

For the times of transmissions google 'weather fax northwood'.

HOWEVER, it's easier than that if you have an iPhone (I don't know about the others)

You need an app called HF FAX. Having got the schedule of transmissions, merely tune in and then HOLD YOUR PHONE (unbelievable, eh?) in front of the radio speaker, and a fax chart will slowly appear.

I did this recently over 2K miles in the north Atlantic. MAGIC

 

[Roberto]

Damn android spell check!
Biscay I'm afraid. And sat phone, not say phone.

thank you anyway

 

[Pye_End]

Thanks. I reckon the Nexus is much less electronically noisy than a netbook, so better chance of receiving a clear picture. Also less amps. I have been skeptical over not using a mic or line in input, but it sounds not to be a problem.

Can you describe what antenna you have found to be successful for this.

Also, have you tried any of the NAVTEX programs on the Nexus as well.

 

[GHA]

Thanks. I reckon the Nexus is much less electronically noisy than a netbook, so better chance of receiving a clear picture. Also less amps. I have been skeptical over not using a mic or line in input, but it sounds not to be a problem.

Can you describe what antenna you have found to be successful for this.

Also, have you tried any of the NAVTEX programs on the Nexus as well.

Electronic noise wasn't a problem as long as the laptop wasn't charging but big power difference. I was very surprised at the quality of the image just using the inbuilt mic, fine single handed but not so good at night for the crew off watch, must be some bluetooth thing out there.
Atlantic antenna was fm radio aerial at the top of the mast into the antenna in on the radio, Biscay was just the radio aerial resting against a chainplate down below. Reception so much better at sea. Navtex I think I got working once, times seem to vary from their schedule quite a bit.

 

[William_H]

As a matter of interest and I imagine a similar situation in other places in the world in Oz the Bureau of Meteoroly broadcast weather forecasts every 4 hrs on SSB.
They broadcast plain english on 6 different frequencies from 2 megahertz to 16 megahertz. So plenty of range. All you need is an SSB receiver and a piece of wire for antenna.
There are 2 broadcasting stations one in the west for Indian and Southern oceans and one in the east for Southern ocean, Pacific and coral sea. Interestingly the transmitters are located about 400miles inland from the coast. However reception is strong and clear on the right frequency for the time of day.
The forecasts are quite complex with wind and wave height for a large number of areas so I would always tape record the received forecast so that you can go over it carefully for anything missed. For the price of an SSB receiver I would have this option as primary weather warning system around Oz but I don't know what is available elsewhere. Good luck olewill

 

[michael_w]

My SailMail subscription gives me access to all the High Seas forecasts, Local shipping forecasts, Navtex, GRIBs, WeFax, etc.

 

[nigelmercier]

Look on eBay for a degen 1103, great little radio, used mine cross Atlantic with a laptop and jvcomm software ...

About the same price, and possibly safer and quicker on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B009URW0HU/dolcetto-21

That's where I got mine, awesome value.

 

[KellysEye]

>broadcasts could be expected to be received 1000 miles from the transmitter.

Depending on the frequency reception is 15,000 miles or more, Australia for example, I would suggest you buy a transceiver the reason is the cruising nets. There will be a net when you cross the Atlantic, as there will be other boats crossing at the same time and there are cruiser nets in the big marinas and popular anchorages. Also there are weather nets and a safety and security net in the Caribbean. Obviously the set and insulated backstay aerial will cost more but we thought the SSB was the second best and most useful piece of kit on the boat after the wind vane. Also a must for long distance sailing if one or two handed, autopilots eat too much power.

 

[GHA]

About the same price, and possibly safer and quicker on Amazon.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B009URW0HU/dolcetto-21

That's where I got mine, awesome value.

Know anything about bluetooth mics? Something that would plug into the radio line out so the tablet could receive the signal without all the squawking?

 

[BruceDanforth]

I started this thread about weatherfax over SSB some time ago:

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthrea...table-sony-radio&highlight=netbook+weatherfax

It has fairly detailed instructions on how to do it.

 

[jdc]

Know anything about bluetooth mics? Something that would plug into the radio line out so the tablet could receive the signal without all the squawking?

Just a bit.

There are many 'profiles' with Bluetooth, which are agreed sets of settings and behaviors so that kit made by different manufacturers works together (eg your BMW works with your Nokia 'phone, etc etc). The profile most appropriate to this application is probably the A2DP profile. As far as the computer is concerned its Bluetooth end is just a sound card. The other end can be a source or sink as appropriate (microphone is a source, speaker a sink). This product is a source, ie sound to PC http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bluetooth-Stereo-Audio-Transmitter-Adapter-Dongle-3-5MM-/200630289924 which you should be able to plug into your radio's headphone jack socket.

However in response to the OP, between Ireland and Spain / Portugal one is in range of voice forecasts throughout. Start with BBC R4 on 198kHz which should be receivable most of the way on a decent radio with good, eg backstay, aerial. Then MF broadcasts from Falmouth coastguard or the equivalent Irish or Spanish stations. See Reeds for frequencies. This is what we used last summer: we didn't feel the need for synoptic charts or data services for such a short trip in European waters.

 

[GHA]

Just a bit.

There are many 'profiles' with Bluetooth, which are agreed sets of settings and behaviors so that kit made by different manufacturers works together (eg your BMW works with your Nokia 'phone, etc etc). The profile most appropriate to this application is probably the A2DP profile. As far as the computer is concerned its Bluetooth end is just a sound card. The other end can be a source or sink as appropriate (microphone is a source, speaker a sink). This product is a source, ie sound to PC http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bluetooth-Stereo-Audio-Transmitter-Adapter-Dongle-3-5MM-/200630289924 which you should be able to plug into your radio's headphone jack socket.

However in response to the OP, between Ireland and Spain / Portugal one is in range of voice forecasts throughout. Start with BBC R4 on 198kHz which should be receivable most of the way on a decent radio with good, eg backstay, aerial. Then MF broadcasts from Falmouth coastguard or the equivalent Irish or Spanish stations. See Reeds for frequencies. This is what we used last summer: we didn't feel the need for synoptic charts or data services for such a short trip in European waters.

Thanks for that.

If it was wfax or voice I'd go for both I find wfax gives you a much better big picture felt for what's going on. Also worth noting, with a rtty reciever prog on a tablet or laptop out can receive the dwd weather text, detailed forecasts for North Sea and baltic with live ships reports. 10.1Mhz I think it is.

 

[AllanR]

My recommendation, based on years of sailing on this side of the world since GMDSS caused a lot of free to air weather broadcasts to stop - for people considering sailing beyond the range of all the great communication and S&R services available around Europe and the UK - is a modern HF/SSB radio (with DSC for access to the maritime safety network of MRCCs and big ships), a Pactor contoller, and join the not-for-profit SailMail association.

The Pactor controller is tightly integrated with the SailMail service (and its AirMail software) to give efficient and truly low-cost email, for a variety of purposes - position reports (free via YOTREPS), free weatherfax, free NAVTEX (if it exists in the particular area), and email to organise and manage the modern long-distance cruising life (spare parts, visitors, cruising permits, marinas, rally participation, finance, family matters, and advice from suppliers about equipment breakdowns, repairs and spares).

The not-for-profit SailMail Association has a network of over 20 linked stations around the world. This gives a mostly continuous coverage throughout the popular cruising regions and for the long ocean passages. SailMail was developed by some very active sailors who are also smart computer/electronics people, and also HAMs. The idea was initially developed to give these individuals a means to go sailing but stay in contact with the office. Then other people wanted it and it grew. Unlike satellite based email - which benefits from being inefficient, because the more connection time you use the more fees they can charge - SailMail must aim to be as efficient as possible with the least resources, because members pay just a small annual fee to create a shared network resource; there are no additional fees charged for connection time. For example, the SailMail software is smart, it remembers where a message transfer reaches so if the connection is dropped, it re-sends from that point, minimising the connection time. The cheap-to-buy satphone based systems re-start the message from the beginning, maximising the connection time, and fees. SailMail's software uses message handling and compression that reduces handshaking overheads and the time/data volume required to transfer a message. This smart message management also works when using a satphone (rather than a HF/SSB radio and Pactor controller) with a SailMail membership; email is significenty cheaper than using regular satphone email software. So a backup/emergency satphone on board can become an no-so-expensive alternative to the HF/SSB radio for SailMail members if there is a problem with on-board power supply or radio function.

The AirMail software the manages SailMail connections (and can also be used for WinLink) also has a means to request (ie define the area, scale and required information) and receive GRIB weather charts and spot forecasts; for no additional fee. GRIB weather charts can display wind speed & direction arrows, wave height colours and grey areas for rain. In lower latitudes - ie, approx 20 degress either side of the equator, where a lot of the popular world cruising destinations and ocean passages are located - this is extremely important, because weather faxes generally display isobars and pressures only. Us amateur meteoligists can usually interpret isobar information quite accurately in higher latitudes, but either side of the equator, the isobars get far apart, so quite small changes in pressure create very large changes in wind speed/direction, sea height and general weather. These free GRIB charts and spot forecasts - with predictions to 10 days ahead - become extremely valuable. Far more informative and useful than most weatherfax broadcasts.

SailMail - like WinLink and more expensive service options via satphone - gives free access to the same official METAREA forecasts (for high seas) which the big ships pay for via their compulsory INMARSAT service, and coastal forecasts too, from a large catalogue available in the AirMail software. Just click on the desired forecast/s and have them sent once, or setup a schedule to send them 1 or more times daily. There are big advantages in these forecasts, because a human has looked at all the mechanical data - the same information created by machines for GRIB charts, weather faxes and lots of other automated weather products - and applied intelligence and judgement to make interpretations. And in particular to create warnings about actual conditions or potential developments. This is extremely valuable, because the automated systems - including GRIB charts - can be slow to "see" a developing potential weather hazard; such as a tropical storm.

Nevertheless, its important to remember that all the forecast products - automated systems and human systems - use the same averaging standards. This became a major issue in the 1998 Sydney to Hobart race, when yachts sailed into wind and waves they did not expect. A number of yachts sank and lives were lost. All maritime forecasts from the Australian Met Office are now required to clarify this averaging. The warning states:

"PLEASE BE AWARE
Please be aware, wind gusts can be a further 40 percent stronger than the
averages given here, and maximum waves may be up to twice the height."

There will always be experimental/developmental options - eg: handphone listening to the HF/SSB weatherfax stream - which may provide the basis for cheaper, reliable and dependable systems in the future. Such experimentation and development is essential and fun. But remember that when operating away from places with lots of S&R support services to sort you out if you or these options have a problem, the prudent mariner looks for reliable and dependable services and systems that work even when the boat is bouncing about and there is a lot of noise from the storm, rig, galley equipment etc.

Around the world, a lot of voice broadcast weather services on HF/SSB ended when GMDSS for large ships was introduced and they moved their telephone traffic - and weather services - from low-cost HF/SSB to INMARSAT. But a yacht's modern HF/SSB radio (with DSC), in combination with the robust Pactor controller and proven not-for-profit SailMail network gives cruisers, race and rally participants the same information, and a lot more too. And there is a lot less congestion and far more frequencies available for private yachts in the marine service since the big users were forced to move to satellite systems.