SSB Again

[BigART]

As mentioned before, we are kitting out for the long trip. Having considered the satphone/Inmarsat/SSB options, we have decided to go down the SSB route for our long distance comms for the flexibility of weatherfax reception, HF email and mostly the cruising 'networks', being able to keep in touch with others within you area.

Firstly, does anyone have any thoughts on our logic?

Secondly, the SSB radio itself. It seems that the only ones easily available round here (UK) are the Icom 710 and 802 units. I understand that they should both be Pactor modem compatible. The prime extra features on the 802 seem to be the seperate front panel and the DSC capability. It seems to me that very few other cruisers will have the DSC capability at this stage and most unlikely that they would be close by. We will have an EPIRB on board. In an emergency, we would fire up the EPIRB and start bleating on the HF, which I believe is more likely to get a response. So the second question is, notwithstanding the European approval issues already discussed, would those in the know consider the DSC capability a desirable extra?

Opinions gratefully received before I make an expensive mistake.

Angus

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[HaraldS]

Going through the same right now, only that most of the things are done now.
Seems that an SSB tranceiver is a great idea to participate in the networks and socialize with others, get all the latest advice before you get to a place and so on.
I also figured it is good if you can participate on both the marine SSB nets and the HAM nets. So I'm planning for both.
Had marine SSB on board no for a while, but here around Europe is boring rather than calling the odd shore station here and there and getting e-mail and grib weather routing files. The later worked quite OK via Kielradio, but not always.
When I cannot get a decent enough short wave connection to get weather files, I revert to Iridium.
Satellite and SSB are quite different and I would want to have both. The SSB and HAM connections give you a low cost way to communicate with other boats that are out VHF range, and you get all the great info from the nets. Iridum is great if you need to call home, or if you have an emergency as it also would work in the life raft. And you will have a much higher probability to reach someone in an emergency. Now that you can get the minutes for 99$ cents, it is cheaper than roaming in many places.
I would hate to have to make a one or the other decision, but would probably go for an universal SSB that I can use for Ham and Marine.

I don't think DSC on the SSB set is important and I doubt many have it. It may help automating an emergency call though.

Actually Icom was also producing a 710 with detachable control head, and that is what I have. Works quite well, but if you want to use it on the HAM networks and they give you a new frequency to switch to, it gets painful. Also you cant just roll through the HAM bands and see what's going on.

That's why I have also got, and quite cheap, a used mobile HAM rig and both are open so that in an emergency I could use either on both bands.

I don't think anybody would care or even notice what unit you use once out at sea, but for registering the ship station on SSB, you will need a conforming device.


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[BigART]

Many thanks for your thoughts.. Sort of confirms mine about SSB/DSC. I think having an Iridium phone as well would be a very nice idea, but the costs are just a bit much. Maybe they will drop enough to become reachable before we set off next year....maybe not. I believe that there is a monthly charge involved on top of the call charges, is this correct?

I have a long range certificate but I shall investigate the Ham route as well as it does give more options on the email front

Great boat and website by the way, I love the picture on your homepage, even though it did take 2 minutes to arrive through my telephone line!

Angus

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[Talbot]

Snap. I have just purchased a second hand Icom 700 (yes I know it is not in its first flush of youth, but it is working and is in great condition) It appears that you can only register a DSC HF now which is barking (and was not the case last time I looked - hence the purchase/forums/images/icons/crazy.gif. I have asked for guidance from OFCOM and quick as a flash - no answer I am convinced that SSB will stay as the long distance cruisers main standbye purely cause of the cost of going inmarsat.

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[HaraldS]

Hi Angus,

You can have Iridium without monthly fee these days. Actually the only sensible thing now is to buy a pre-paid card, as the air time prices are the same or better.
Prepaid is now offered at 99 cents / min, and a one time fee I think around $80 for the card. Only requirement is to purchase 200 Minutes a year or you loose remaining minutes. So that part seems pretty fine. Phones: Unfortunately the older 9500 are getting rare, two years ago I bought a brand new one for $500. Now you might have to get a 9505 and that is anywhere from 1200 - 1800 dollars. But keep an eye on ebay.. Ther you might also find some of the discontinued Kyocera units, which unfortunately do no data connections, bt are fine for voice and quite cheap.

Do investigate the HAM route, now you don't even have to do the morse test.

The aquarell picture on the home page is a painting my father did during the maiden voyage. Unfortunately it is one of his last pictures as he is turning blind.

Harald

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[MainlySteam]

Hi Angus

Whether other pleasure boats have DSC or not is irrelevant to the purchase decision for ssb as the DSC safety watch is kept by shore stations and no pleasure vessels commonly use selective calling for traffic among themselves. I would personally have it, simply for the safety watch.

We have an IC-M802 with which we are very happy, but it is really only justified in my case because of my wider interests in radio. The radio itself is excellent for the class it is in and is streets ahead of the earlier models and the similar or lower priced others (I do not work for Icom ar have any connection), especially if one operates in other services as well as the maritime one.

SSB does have a role for a safety watch, however, in my experience many yacht borne ssb systems are compromised through poor setup in which cases the 406Mhz EPIRB is probably the main alerting equipment that should be relied on, but is, of course, unable to seek assistance other than in the Distress case (no Urgency or Safety alerting provision).

In NZ, if one deposits a trip/voyage report with Maritime Radio for an offshore voyage they will usually suggest that one might like to call them daily on ssb (assuming one carries it) during the voyage to report ones position and condition and they will maintain a watch on you based on that. They will immediately handle any safety matter and provide weather on request (as well as the normal broadcasts of that, of course).

I know that is not the case in most places, but give it as an example of the closeness and serious way ssb contact with the authorities will be taken - a medical call, or other safety request on the telephone will not normally get the same shoreside commitment (it is not their responsibility to do so). A Mayday on ssb will get immediate commitment and action - it will be assumed to be serious. The same thing on the telephone will be tested for seriousness and passed from one to another, the action is not likely to be immediate (you can, however, phone ones own doctor at 3 am in his morning /forums/images/icons/smile.gif).

If, as you say you will use it for email and keeping in touch via the cruising networks it would seem to me that an ssb would be valued.

John



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[Anonymous]

Are you required to have a ham license and callsign before using the marine SSB system? I contacted a local (UK) amateur radio society some years ago and was told that that there is no fast-track way to do this. You have to sit with a qualified radio amateur instructor for hours going over literally months before you can get licensed. All fine, maybe, if you want to be a radio amateur as a hobby per se, but it wasn't for me. Did I get the wrong end of the stick, or is there an easier, quicker way?

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[snowleopard]

marine v ham

you are required to have a ham callsign if you want to transmit on their frequencies. it involves an exam for which a lot of study is required. hams will not talk to anyone who doesn't have an amateur callsign.

in theory you need to get the long range certificate before using the marine bands but in reality no-one checks and the training is a bit of a joke.

the icom 718/810 receive all frequencies but transmit only on marine bands though i believe you can fiddle around inside to remove this restriction.

dsc is no use on ssb if your interest is in talking to other yachts. no-one leaves their set in receive mode as it draws way too much power. contact is either through pre-arranged schedule or regular networks, for example 7.30 am on 8104 in the caribbean is when everyone calls their friends.

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[BigART]

Many thanks for all your contributions, very helpful. I was half aware of the pre-pay method for Iridium, but felt that the requirement to pay for 200 minutes a year minimum was effectively a standing charge. Although Sailmail is also $200/year, I think SSB still has the edge for flexibility. I wasn't aware that only DSC SSB radios could be licensed now, as Talbot says - barking in view of the dearth of approved sets. But I suppose it is a chicken and egg situation. Also, as Snowleopard says, who is going to leave their receivers on 24 hrs/day?

Decisions, decisions.

Angus

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[Anonymous]

Re: marine v ham

Thanks, that makes it clear. Would marine SSB be of any real use in the Med? For mets I am planning to buy a Navtext and listen to the local forecasts which I do understand in Spanish, French and Italian. Would weather fax via SSB be a benefit (I will have a laptop and printer)?

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[Talbot]

No you do not need a ham license to use Marine SSB. Courses are available here <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.yachtcom.co.uk/Courses/LRC.htm>http://www.yachtcom.co.uk/Courses/LRC.htm</A> and should also cover the UHF-DSC requirements. This course is much shorter than the full radio ham exam (note that the Ham exam does not include morse anymore)

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[Anonymous]

Thank you for that link, it looks interesting. But do you think that marine SSB would enhance our lifestyles as liveaboards in the Med or could we spend the money on something more useful?

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[Talbot]

as liveaboards in the med, I would suggest that a Rx only SSB might be sufficient to get all the info you want without the overhead of the Tx. Alternatively, if use of a radio is a fun activity, become a Ham and get all the gear and remain in touch with people in UK to find out how wonderful the weather is where you are compared to UK/forums/images/icons/smile.gif

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[Anonymous]

Thanks, that's what I was beginning to think. I think I'll manage without for the time being. It's a met issue, really. When I was last in the Med there was no email, Navtext, or internet. Weatherfax was for really big ships. All we cold do was to listen to the local VHF and the Met forecasts on national radio. A bit off topic, but is Navtext a good service for met in the Med?

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[kesey]

Re: SSB / Navtex in Med

Frank Singleton is the net weather guru. This gives all the Navtex details:
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.franksingleton.clara.net/navtex_2.html>http://www.franksingleton.clara.net/navtex_2.html</A>

Med is Metarea III

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[Ric]

Lemain asked if Navtex is a good source of Nav info in the Med. Best to say it is ok - but not as good as in UK. UK is lucky because as both "home" and "international" frequencies are in English, they can use the "home" frequency to give quite detailed and localised coastal weather. In Med, the two frequencies broadcast same info in different lingos, so you only get weather for the principal sea areas. Also, it tends not to get updated more than about once per day, and is only a one day forecast. However, weather warnings are very good.

Navtex is therefore not great for passage planning, except to avoid something nasty. If you have email, I would look into subscribing to something like Raytheon's text-weather service, which their software converts into really nice wind maps. I've not used it - just seen it demo'd.

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[merlin]

Re: marine v ham

We've been in the Med since September last year. We found the reception on navtex patchy to say the least. I've used the rx only ssb we have to listen on 518Khz and heard music being broadcast, albeit faintly, so I now have an idea why!

We came down from the Rhone to Barcelona and it has been the same the whole way down. Some days you get Toulon and Valencia (W and X), sometimes nothing for days or even weeks.

A better option for the med would seem to be weatherman. We use the ssb to monitor the frequencies and can usually get something. It also provides longer range weather forecasts than navtex.

Can't recommed Frank Singletons site highly enough for all sorts of weather info and sources of info - that's where I found the weatherman schedules.

http://www.dwd.de/de/wir/Geschaeftsfelder/Seeschifffahrt/Sendeplaene/e_telexpln.htm

I'd look seriously at the weatherman before committing one way or another. Nasa do one and it's easy to find a site on the www with a search for weatherman and nasa. I don't think the weatherman has navigation warnings which have been quite useful, like knowing that there are containers washed overboard, roughly in our path, or to keep a look out for a 3m log, table etc, washed into our vicinity by floods, not to mention firing ranges and times.

Alternatively, get a proper marine ssb receiver and use the pc like we do. We can also receive navtex broadcasts (we use the jvcomm shareware which has an excellent tuning aid built in). From what I gather, synoptic charts aren't as much use in the med, we certainly haven't bothered with weatherfaxes since we've been here. I think that announcements of mistrals, tramontones etc are more useful than my amateurish attempts to interpret their causes which may be several hundred miles away - not quite like the UK where you can see it coming because the cause is so close.

If you do go down the ssb receiver route I would check the reception very carefully, and what the arrangements are for an external aerial. We have a Nasa target which can be a pain to tune with the dial rather than a digital tuner, but we do get good reception from the 10m aerial, especially with a good earth.



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[Anonymous]

Re: marine v ham

Merlin, Thanks for your detailed and useful input.

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[kesey]

There's some excellent SSB info here:
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.icomamerica.com/marine/ssb_book.html>http://www.icomamerica.com/marine/ssb_book.html</A>

Great reading

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[Close hauled]

For your information. You can purchase a brand new Icom 802 in St Lucia for the same ticket price in US$ as it is in the UK in GBP - at current exchange rates that a huge saving.

I'd talk to Bob Smith at Yachtcom before forking out on a SSB - one of the added benefits of doing the LRC with him was being able to get expert advice and later backup.

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