Springs....and things.....

[Goldie]

Is the use of springs going out of fashion? Isn't their use taught any more? On a recent trip to the R. Yealm I was (un)fortunate enough to witness half a dozen boats make approaches to the visitor's pontoon in a very strong tide and not one had springs rigged and ready. One screwed up his approach so badly (ended up broadside across someone else's stemhead) that he decided to make his second approach down tide!!! We tried to help by taking his lines (he ignored advice to turn around) so as to try to protect the unoccupied boat which he had selected as his target. Having slowed his assault ("approach" doesn't do it justice) I was still trying to get a turn on a cleat whilst hanging on for grim death when he lost interest in my efforts to go to the other side of the boat to take the lines of his mate coming alongside! Down tide again, no springs, 2 fenders. No way am I hanging on to the weight of 2 boats in a couple of knots of tide or more, and told him so. he looked all agrieved and couldn't understand why I was upset! Last weekend a Hallberg Rassy had 2 attempts at climbing over my transom: the first on his initial approach (too fast, put crew ashore with breast ropes, but again no spring ready to go) and then again as the boat rode forward whilst they stood on the pontoon and discussed what ropes they would need and where. I couldn't even fend them off as I was working at the top of the mizzen mast at the time! Whilst I'm having a rant; boat handling under power. Why do so many "professional" outfits have to approach every mooring situation as if it is a race? I was saying to a friend recently (watching a Sunsail "Sunfast 36" doing circuits and bumps in The Bag at Salcombe "if his reverse gear fails or the prop doesn't unfold, he's stuffed!". If this is the way people are taught, they won't realise the error of their ways until too late. On Saturday (just after the HR mooring up), I saw it happen at Buckler's Hard. Two corporate performance boats (not Sunsail this time) headed for the marina at speed. One turned in to a berth only to find that it wasn't empty - problem 1. Much revving of engine and problem 2 came to light. Either the prop didn't unfold or a gear failed but the boat was still doing several knots. The boat in question happened to have it's spinnaker pole secured to the mast and angled down through the pulpit to act as a battering ram. Pity the 2 Moodys that took the full impact kerrrrunch! "Starboard" raised several valid points in his recent post "Fenders both sides", most of which centered around seamanship, looking after your own boat and ensuring that you don't damage another's. I concur - and before anyone accuses me of being "precious" about my boat - damn right I am! So, guys and girls, before you come alongside, how about making sure that the boat is prepared with fenders out, ALL appropriate lines rigged and ready and finally, the crew briefed as to what is expected of them. That way I'd be happy to take your lines, not just acting in a spirit of self preservation.

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[rich]

I wish i could type like you, that was agood post!!!!

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[Victorious]

Springs??
No-no-no-no!
They chafe the colour coordinated fender socks!



<sigh>

<hr width=100% size=1>www.victorious.co.uk

 

[john_morris_uk]

Regarding speed, I was always taught (and always teach) "As slow as you can and as fast as you have to."

And I sometimes say, why not try going as fast as you'd like to hit somebody? Which is another way of trying to get them to think about some of the issues raised.

My argument would be to come alongside with all 'appropriate lines rigged ready'.

As a family, we usually approach with springs on deck ready, and bow and stern lines to go ashore, but that is modified by the conditions and crew available. (Single handed, all the lines might be ready, but the first line is a midships short spring to motor against with the helm locked the opposite way - keeps the boat parked and still when you run round and make fast.)

Perhaps what is needed is a modicum of seamanship?

Is the problem exacerbated by modern boats that (usually) drive reliably and (usually) go the way they are pointed?

Are some of us more circumspect because we have memories of unreliable engines and long keeled boats with a mind of their own?

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[Evadne]

"Unreliable engines and long-keeled boats with a mind of their own"

Some of us still sail them!

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[Superstrath]

"but the first line is a midships short spring to motor against with the helm locked the opposite way - keeps the boat parked and still when you run round and make fast."

Why isn't this method used (taught?) as the norm? One rope, boat secure. With all the lines ready, one crew steps ashore with the for'ard spring, takes a turn on a cleat, surges the boat into position, helm over, engine ticking over - then there's all the time in the world to sort out the rest of the lines. Once you know where the spring works best on your boat, it makes life so easy. I'm always amazed at the leaping, heaving and shouting that goes on whenever a boat comes into a berth.


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[tcm]

yeah, this is good.

planing powerboats at low speed essentially have no rudder steering and all control is done through the engine controls. So, if you hear a "beeeeep" alarm from a powerboat coming in - one or other of his engines is stalled/not running (but engine circuit still connected) and hence may not really be in control.

I once suggested to a rather too-enthusiastic helm to slow down thus-" if the crew is getting bored - that's probably about the right speed" and he remebered years later.


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[snowleopard]

having watched some of these training boats manoevering i have come to the conclusion that most of the instructors are young men who love to show off. there is nothing macho about sliding gently into a berth, it has to be done as fast as possible. it looks impressive when it works, which it may do 90% of the time but when they come unstuck they do so in a big way.

this thread gives rise to an interesting question - when someone who is obviously not competent starts trying to come alongside you, what is the best way to persuade them to either go away or do it properly? given that the situation will be developing very rapidly and the offending skipper has his ego at stake, how do you get him to modify his behaviour without shouting abuse and turning it into a fight? (assuming you don't have the ultimate deterrent, a steel boat with a rusty rubbing strake)

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[tcm]

We have the codeword "Action!" when moored in a berth - which i developed to alert everyone that immediate assistance on deck is needed to fender off a boat rafting/coming in alongside.
This is quite a lot better than "Quick everyone - get some fenders cos the boat coming in looks like he's gonna make a right hash of it and he's in a very cheap or possibly a rental boat!" - because when he finally does get in (and usually without too much damage i have to say) it is rather hard if not impossible to make friends.

This doesn't quite address the problem you posed - although the sudden and simultaneous appearance of plenty of people on deck all with fenders does smarten up their act and makem realise that they aren't gonna get away with crunching and bumping their way in, and less-competents (and others in bloody awkward-to-manoevre boats) do seem to listen to advice from boats with sharp-looking crew.

in light airyplanes (not airliners) the issue of "going around" (ie pulling out of a landing and having another go at it) is not at all an issue of bravado, and is quite frequent.

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[ChrisE]

Interesting question and one that I don't beleive has a simple answer and must depend uopn the attitdue of the skipper. We prefer to be completely self-sufficient when mooring and don't ask for or would expect any help and plan accordingly. Other sailors I know take it for granted that the crew of other boats or passersby are at their command for any mooring exercise.

When confronted with poor seamanship of the type "pull that rope in quickly because my craft is out of control" ie the skipper is not in control of the craft, depending upon my mood I'm either sweetness and light and helpful recognising that we all had to learn once or just plain grumpy and suggest that they learn to sail.

We once were wacked by a trainee mobo crew and were going to get really grumpy and then realised that the lads were on thier first trip, the boat had lost steerage through engine failure and that they were mortified by the potential damage they might have caused. We ended up sharing a meal with them and having a good evening.

On another occasion a raggie put a hole in our stern on Poole town quay whist mooring in the strong cross tide and then proceeded to ignore the event. When I pointed out the damage he merely said "I'm new to yachting and the boat was out of control, what could I do about it?". He then felt the hot breath of one seriously p***ed off owner.

I guess what I'm getting around to say is that the attitude of the tyro is the most important factor when faced with less than competent seamanship.

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[BrendanS]

It's certainly taught on all the powerboat courses I've been on. Along with slow calculated approach to pontoon/mob/berth/buoy - whatever you are trying to come alongside

<hr width=100% size=1>Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabris, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.

 

[Superstrath]

I was once told by a crewman for a well-known racer that, "You need speed to manoeuvre - just takes confidence." He holed the first charter boat he took out.
The self-reliance is good - my spring-man out-stares waiting "helpers" until he can step ashore, and the rest are told NOT to throw lines no matter what those on the dock shout. All too often you see boats with a stern-line made fast and nothing else - the helmsman then has no control, blown off the berth/hits other boats/whatever.

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[Twister_Ken]

long-keeled boats with a mind of their own

This is a bit of a myth promulgated by us l-k boat owners to bolster our esteem amongst the yoggie pot sailors out there. Usually l-k boats are only idiosyncratic going astern, but going ahead, they handle brilliantly in a x-wind, compared with high topsided boats with no keels (motor boats) or pretend keels (AWBs). As long as you want to go pointy end into a berth you can put a full-keeled low windage boat exactly where you want her, at very slow speed ( providing a very tight radius turn is not required).

Getting out astern is, of course, somewhat more amusing, but something that can usually be achieved crunch-free with a bit of muscle and a bit of string.

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.writeforweb.com/twister1>Let's Twist Again</A>

 

[Kristal]

Having taught myself "big boat" sailing on a long-keeled, counter-sterned yacht on the Broads, manouvering under power is one thing I can do reasonably well. However, in most marina situations, I prefer to get as close as I can and then warp her in. She's very well behaved, especially when I'm on my own, and generally goes where I want her to without too much heaving.

That said, I have been in many an interesting situation when trying to motor astern. Crystal will NOT steer, and if she even starts moving astern I'm doing well. I recall an interesting situation where we just span in circles in a very tight marina lane, as Crystal would simply not go where I wanted her to under power, so I just had to concentrate on not hitting anybody. I clearly alarmed some motorboat owners with the bowsprit, but we didn't hit anything. However, by far the most interesting was the other day, in a flat calm, when she not only picked up speed astern, but also steered astern - most unusually good behaviour!

When single-handed, I find it easiest to stick her nose into the finger berth, hop off when the corner is amidships, slap on a stern line to stop her from wedging her bobstay onto the pontoon, and then make off the bow line. I have never been in a situation where I can't stop her from whacking another boat just by applying a firm hand on the shrouds.

/<

<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.crystaltwo.co.uk/>Crystal II in Pictures</A>

 

[Chris_Robb]

Re: long-keeled boats with a mind of their own

But there you have the problem Ken - if a tight radius turn is required - you can only do it one way (to port) - and that requires some speed and ample supply of reverse to skid the stern round. Always did wonder what 14 tons would have done to the Bav next to us. I'll never find out now!

How are the decks doing - will you be doing some reversing soon?


Chris

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[ubuysa]

<font size=1>"but the first line is a midships short spring to motor against with the helm locked the opposite way - keeps the boat parked and still when you run round and make fast."

Why isn't this method used (taught?) as the norm?</font size=1>

It was also taught on every RYA sailing course I did (with SailUK). Proper use of springs was something my CS examiner was pretty keen on as well.

Tony C.

<hr width=100% size=1>There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.

 

[Talbot]

Dont give away trade secrets about using a middle spring and engine, you will ruin all that great entertainment of watching other people parking their boats.

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[Evadne]

Re: long-keeled boats with a mind of their own

Maybe some boats are more long-keeled than others, I can turn tight enough to worry SWMBO in a marina lane, as long as its to starboard and not through the eye of the wind. You just have to plan a bit further in advance: I always say she is predictable but not tractable - if you do what she wants to do it will be inch-perfect, even in reverse, its just a matter of planning the maneuver, and keeping within her repertoire.

Last I heard Ken was out as far as Lepe at the weekend, trying for his Buoy identification badge, which is more than I've done (launching on Tuesday followed shortly by a trip away, so no sailing until June).

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[Goldie]

Thanks Rich, my one finger's fair worn out! By the way, from up the mizzen mast I couldn't even deploy those wonderful fenders that I parted you from. All the best,

Ian

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[peterb]

The centre cleat system doesn't always work. In particular, short pontoons can be difficult.

On a short pontoon I send a bow breast rope and a stern spring ashore, then reverse against the stern spring. If the spring is long enough, then both lines can be put on to the same pontoon cleat, near the bow, and only one person need go ashore. The bow breast rope stops the bow from swinging out, and the boat stays stable while other lines are put in position.

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