longjohnsilver
Well-Known Member
Any evidence for what you write? However much you may disagree, what Nick says is as it is. Just take a look around any marina or boat club for confirmation.
Spot the boat is no more!
- Thread starter longjohnsilver
- Start date
Any evidence for what you write? However much you may disagree, what Nick says is as it is. Just take a look around any marina or boat club for confirmation.
Nick_H
Well-Known Member
Have a look back through the spot the boat pictures, they're neither suggestive nor scantly clad (for being on a boat). Most of the models are not that young, mostly not blond, they're never topless and they're not in suggestive poses. They look like classy desirable women, to support the advertisers message that people who buy their boats are successful people who will be partnered with women like the ones in the pictures. It's about aspiration not titillation.
annageek
Well-Known Member
I have deliberated over whether to contribute to this thread or not. I've not been on these forums for very long at all (although have been a lurker for a couple of years now), but I hope I have made some valuable contributions in my short, active time here... so I though why not get involved?
For the record, I'm not one for going against the grain for the sake of it. I do however feel strongly that we should all stand up for things we believe in... in my view, this is the only way to bring about positive change.
Personally, STB threads are something I have always avoided, as to me, it comes across as 'light titillation' for the gents here. I guess I could say I feel 'mildly excluded'. Granted, we are on 'the internet' and lets face it, there is far more objectionable content available to us all, right now, just a few clicks away. That doesn't mean that STB is 'OK' to continue as it is without question, though.
I have to say, I'm truly surprised that some comments suggest there is an element of denial that some people can be offended by the photos currently used for STB. I think this may be down to not understanding the wider problem that the associated attitudes can have... and this is no fault of those who are in denial, as they will never experience the problems themselves.
I'm relatively young, work as an electronic engineer, and as part of my job get involved in heavy industry / automotive sectors. I regularly feel that my opinion is often undervalued and I hear remarks, from time to time such as 'oh but she's just a woman... what does she know', or words to that effect. These, I think, are said in jest, but that doesn't automatically make it OK. Once people realise I have something worth listening to, they do start to give my opinion a bit more respect, but there is almost always this initial barrier to overcome. (Thankfully, this has not been the case on these forums in my timer here!) This is something that my male colleagues do not experience - even if they are a junior role to me and are standing right next to me, they will be the one asked the questions, not me! I strongly feel this phenomenon is a result of a deep bias / attitude towards women that is perpetuated by the portrayal of women, by society, the media and advertising companies. Objectifying women as objects of desire contributes to the 'oh, but it's OK' attitude. If I am right, STB plays into this way of doing things too (albeit in a fairly minor way).
If the bikini wearing woman (or topless man) was no longer in the STB photos, would those that currently join in with the game stop joining in? Would it really take that much away from STB? These are genuine questions... I really am interested in the answers. All I know is if the answer to both is 'no', then this way, STB can continue minus the models in the pictures (as I believe is being proposed) and everyone can join in (who wants to) and nobody gets excluded or offended because they hold a belief that, I think, they are perfectly entitled to have.
But please, "It's OK because it's always been this way" or "It's OK because the motor industry does it", or whatever, are not valid excuses in my opinion. These justifications used to used by those who tried to defend historic attitudes towards ethnicity, race, religion and sexual orientation in the past, and I dearly hope that we would all agree that the change in attitudes towards these topics has been universally welcomed and purely positive!
Anna
For the record, I'm not one for going against the grain for the sake of it. I do however feel strongly that we should all stand up for things we believe in... in my view, this is the only way to bring about positive change.
Personally, STB threads are something I have always avoided, as to me, it comes across as 'light titillation' for the gents here. I guess I could say I feel 'mildly excluded'. Granted, we are on 'the internet' and lets face it, there is far more objectionable content available to us all, right now, just a few clicks away. That doesn't mean that STB is 'OK' to continue as it is without question, though.
I have to say, I'm truly surprised that some comments suggest there is an element of denial that some people can be offended by the photos currently used for STB. I think this may be down to not understanding the wider problem that the associated attitudes can have... and this is no fault of those who are in denial, as they will never experience the problems themselves.
I'm relatively young, work as an electronic engineer, and as part of my job get involved in heavy industry / automotive sectors. I regularly feel that my opinion is often undervalued and I hear remarks, from time to time such as 'oh but she's just a woman... what does she know', or words to that effect. These, I think, are said in jest, but that doesn't automatically make it OK. Once people realise I have something worth listening to, they do start to give my opinion a bit more respect, but there is almost always this initial barrier to overcome. (Thankfully, this has not been the case on these forums in my timer here!) This is something that my male colleagues do not experience - even if they are a junior role to me and are standing right next to me, they will be the one asked the questions, not me! I strongly feel this phenomenon is a result of a deep bias / attitude towards women that is perpetuated by the portrayal of women, by society, the media and advertising companies. Objectifying women as objects of desire contributes to the 'oh, but it's OK' attitude. If I am right, STB plays into this way of doing things too (albeit in a fairly minor way).
If the bikini wearing woman (or topless man) was no longer in the STB photos, would those that currently join in with the game stop joining in? Would it really take that much away from STB? These are genuine questions... I really am interested in the answers. All I know is if the answer to both is 'no', then this way, STB can continue minus the models in the pictures (as I believe is being proposed) and everyone can join in (who wants to) and nobody gets excluded or offended because they hold a belief that, I think, they are perfectly entitled to have.
But please, "It's OK because it's always been this way" or "It's OK because the motor industry does it", or whatever, are not valid excuses in my opinion. These justifications used to used by those who tried to defend historic attitudes towards ethnicity, race, religion and sexual orientation in the past, and I dearly hope that we would all agree that the change in attitudes towards these topics has been universally welcomed and purely positive!
Anna
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
Anna belated welcome to the forum. A thoughtful and considered post but you miss the point. Including bikini clad women (and men) in boat ads is not about objectifying women or titillation but portraying a lifestyle that the boat manufacturer wants prospective owners to aspire to. When I see an ad for a boat with scantily clad women/men on board I don't think of objectification but of warm sun filled days floating around the Med and when you think about it, thats what boat manufacturers are selling, not sexual gratification. There's another point here as well. There is a large modelling industry out there which employs thousands of women and who are you to tell them they shouldn't be earning a living doing what they are doing? Last point; women complain that they don't want to be objectified when they're younger but when they get to a certain age, they complain that men don't look at them anymore. You can't have it both ways
Nigelpickin
Well-Known Member
Quote 'If the bikini wearing woman (or topless man) was no longer in the STB photos, would those that currently join in with the game stop joining in? Would it really take that much away from STB? These are genuine questions... I really am interested in the answers.'
I usually read the STB thread, more out of interest/admiration regarding JFM/Mapism and the like and their ability to make accurate recognition. The models, (and let's not demean them by reducing them to 'bikini wearing women' or 'Objectified' as surely their chosen profession is as valid worthy as most any other?), the models play no part in my interest.
I do not believe that any reasonable person would be offended by any of the STB images that have been posted by the MBM/MBY team.
Anna, I am sorry that you seem to be undermined and undervalued by your colleagues but please, if you are looking for a causal contributor then perhaps turn your energy toward MTV, M&S, F1, Playboy Channel or any number of perpetrating purveyors of flesh. And seriously, if you ever hear a peer saying, 'she's just a woman' again, document it and go speak to a Manager - you have a right to do that, you have a responsibility to do that.
Saraband, I really do not understand what is wrong in your life, I certainly would not normally make a personal comment about a forumite but seriously?!! It's not that you are fighting the wrong battle, more that there is no battle to be fought.
If you want to make a difference, if you are serious about sexual objectification that's fine but please do not confuse STB with exploitation. Oh and maybe go read up on your Huxely, if this thread ends up being the thin end of the wedge of some hideous dystopian future where lunatic puritans have won the day, well someone please, turn off the lights.
I usually read the STB thread, more out of interest/admiration regarding JFM/Mapism and the like and their ability to make accurate recognition. The models, (and let's not demean them by reducing them to 'bikini wearing women' or 'Objectified' as surely their chosen profession is as valid worthy as most any other?), the models play no part in my interest.
I do not believe that any reasonable person would be offended by any of the STB images that have been posted by the MBM/MBY team.
Anna, I am sorry that you seem to be undermined and undervalued by your colleagues but please, if you are looking for a causal contributor then perhaps turn your energy toward MTV, M&S, F1, Playboy Channel or any number of perpetrating purveyors of flesh. And seriously, if you ever hear a peer saying, 'she's just a woman' again, document it and go speak to a Manager - you have a right to do that, you have a responsibility to do that.
Saraband, I really do not understand what is wrong in your life, I certainly would not normally make a personal comment about a forumite but seriously?!! It's not that you are fighting the wrong battle, more that there is no battle to be fought.
If you want to make a difference, if you are serious about sexual objectification that's fine but please do not confuse STB with exploitation. Oh and maybe go read up on your Huxely, if this thread ends up being the thin end of the wedge of some hideous dystopian future where lunatic puritans have won the day, well someone please, turn off the lights.
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
They aren't. Boat manufacturers are well aware that the female partner plays just as big a role in choosing a boat as the male. I wouldn't dare buy a boat that my SWMBO didn't approve of
paultallett
Well-Known Member
Aren't you forgetting these ladies will be professional models. They very much enjoy what they do and also enjoy the money that comes with it. So it's not the same as an un consenting family member, now that would be utterly wrong.
paultallett
Well-Known Member
Sorry Deleted User, I see we said pretty much the same thing re the models. Must have been typing at the same time.
dom
Well-Known Member
As this storm in a teacup gathers strength, how come the STB nays have missed the irony of the Anthropologie advert at the top of the page, where a rather attractive lady pouts from the screen with the words, "Roll over to take a peek"!?
PS: Those with ad-blocker will have to disable to view.
PS: Those with ad-blocker will have to disable to view.
gjgm
Well-Known Member
I do not often disagree with you Mike, but that is simply nonsense, and frankly I am somewhat surprised that you think this is in any way true.
I suspect what you meant to say is that the male believes that he has made the decision.Or at least half the decision.
Well, some of it- perhaps the mechanical aspects. Oh, we don't need such big engines? Oh, not even this boat? Ah.. that one over there? (Gently sobs into the joint cheque book).
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SLC
Well-Known Member
Nigelpickin
Well-Known Member
Sarabande(male), not Sarahb or Sarah.
As in the dance I assume, I hope the irony is not lost on him.....
Nautical
Well-Known Member
Anna, thanks for your thoughts, nice to hear everyone's opinion.
I would say you have opened up a whole can of worms there by casting the debate to a wider issue.
The idea that we can legislate or at least start applying a code of ethics into the boat buying/advertising or any other arena based on what one finds offensive and another for the life of them can't see what the problem is you are going to have to take a non gender approach. That means you will have to apply these new principles to a vast array of advertising aimed at the female market too (otherwise it becomes a double standard and as far as I know this should all be about equality). The video I posted was just an example, I am sure no one here male or otherwise really found that advert offensive but under the guidance that hypothetically should be employed for STB then so too would that fizzy drink advert have to be banned (which by the way went viral amongst the female you tubing populous) . Every perfume, fashion brand, jewellery and a ton of other advertising will have to come under the same rules, the entire advertising industry would be turned on its head. Where does that lead us, a situation where absolutely any and all advertising that dare show female or male flesh with the slightest hint of sexual intent becomes a banning situation. No longer may you look up at that bill board of super model X advertising the latest backless/ strapless short crop party dress, no that is not acceptable. Where does it end , no advertising that shows red lipstick?, we all know the connotations behind lipstick, hmm, well we can ban that too. Very much the thin end of the wedge once you get started.
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Richard Shead
Slipped Anchor
The majority of staff here at Time Inc (UK) are women...
Nautical
Well-Known Member
DOH ! that's what you get when on a phone, it looked like sarah in the teeney text
Apologies, now I look an even bigger plonker.
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Flynnbarr
Well-Known Member
They get everywhere
Will MBY be telling Princess/fairline/Sunseeker etc to airbrush their models from ads in the mag?
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
What I wrote is just what you wrote, you know. Boat buyers are mostly male and white, and it may well be that this is partly because of ingrained sexism and racism.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
And that's a pretty good description of objectification. The women in question aren't people and don't have personalities - they are just pieces of exposed flesh used to sell you a lifestyle.
That's a caricature, not an argument. In fact it's a pretty damn offensive caricature, assuming as it does that all women are gagging for it.
sailorman
Well-Known Member
And that is clearly apparent Richard
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
It's not the images themselves that are offensive, it's the context and the implications. To be honest, I have wondered for ages how long the "Spot the Boat" business would keep going. When I first saw it I thought it was a wry joke at the expense of sad old men who ogle young women, but to keep it going is just tacky. I wonder how many of those who defend it would be as keen if the models were muscular young men in bulging speedos?
