Speedseal vs DIY alternative

[snooks]

Dinghyman, I don't see how speedseal can object to me making a new cover for my pump as they don't produce one to fit.

If you are copying their design or infringing their patent, I expect they can object

"A patent protects your invention and lets you take legal action against anyone who makes, uses, sells or imports your invention without your permission."

Whether they would (actually) take legal action action against you is another matter, obviously they'd have to find out about it first...with that in mind I wouldn't go posting the idea on a forum, or anything that might show up in a google alert...

 

[jdc]

If you are copying their design or infringing their patent, I expect they can object

"A patent protects your invention and lets you take legal action against anyone who makes, uses, sells or imports your invention without your permission."

Whether they would (actually) take legal action action against you is another matter, obviously they'd have to find out about it first...with that in mind I wouldn't go posting the idea on a forum, or anything that might show up in a google alert...

Yes, but I think your quote is of US law, and UK law is somewhat different, at least in interpretation. But that aside, there are two extra considerations which are likely to dominate:

1. The quantum of damages is the money the plaintiff lost (not gross, but net profit) which is likely to be 1/1000th of any lawyers costs, or even zero since as they don't make a model which the OP could have purchased; and
2. The scope of a patent does not include denying someone the right to conduct 'philosophical investigations' ie experiments, so making a one-off for own use could be argued (and has been in a test case) to be allowed anyway. Edit: and seems to be explicitly allowed in the UK - see link below.

It's also very likely that the original patents have expired (only 20 years after filing), leaving only methods patents still current.

So it's copyright law or passing off (trades descriptions iirc) which would be the potential issues, and I suspect that the OP intends no exact copy, nor to attempt to claim his device is made by the OEM.

edit:see http://www.inbrief.co.uk/intellectual-property/defences-to-patent-infringement.htm

 

[ghostlymoron]

I'm not bothered about patent issues as they don't make one to fit my engine anyway. I've decided to just replace the tiny screws with cheese head Allan key type as suggested by old varnish I think and see how it goes for now.
Anyone know the thread size?

 

[charles_reed]

I'm sure someone with metalwork skills could knock one up. Unfortunately I was in the "A" stream, so I did Latin

The O ring groove is the difficult one - my Johnson pump has the O-ring groove in the pump body.

IMHO, the Speedseal is a conspicuous waste of money - far better to put the cash towards a spare raw-water pump. On my 2GM you had to take off the pump to get at the faceplate, so a replacement pump was a far more effective solution. That I've carried over to the 3YM, mainly because, when the pump does pack in it's only a 50% chance the impeller is at fault.
Studs and butterfly nuts might be an improvement, but not over using an electric screwdriver. Perhaps that would be a more practical approach to a DIY Speedseal?


However people swear by their Speedseals (and who's ever going to admit to being a rubbish lover or driver?)

PS As son and I still have an income stream from Performing Rights I think those who nick others good ideas deserve all the bad karma they're going to get.
No doubt Brits are becoming amoral psychopaths ;-)

 

[ghostlymoron]

The new improved version, Speedseal Life, has the advantage of a nylon plate bearing so that it can run dry. That is a definite advantage and they have been adopted by RNLI apparently.

 

[Sarnia]

Isnt there a nylon wear plate?
I changed my pump screws to stainless cap head ones for ease of removal

I have a Perkins 4108, I tried to change the 4 slot head screws, which are not easy o get at, for allen head ones, but the threads are not metric, I suspect mabe a BA, does anyone else have the same.

 

[ChattingLil]

I was also disappointed to find they don't make to fit my pump either. In fact, they thought they did but what they sent me doesn't. They were not interested in making one for me either -although my Johnson pump is new (fitted in September 2013). It's an uncommon size that falls inbetween sizes they do.

I sent it back, but they let me keep the thumbscrews to use on current plate - unfortunately, they are too long and I haven't yet got around to finding someone to shorten them for me. Anyone ?

I had a speedseal life on my old boat - loved it.

 

[ghostlymoron]

You can shorten the screws with a hacksaw and file. Make sure you hold them tight in a vice when cutting and chamfer the ends slightly with a fine file when finished.
(there is probably a power tool to do this but I prefer hand tools)
I don't know whether thumbscrews will exert enough pressure on a paper gasket though - it needs more than an O-ring.

 

[ChattingLil]

You can shorten the screws with a hacksaw and file. Make sure you hold them tight in a vice when cutting and chamfer the ends slightly with a fine file when finished.
(there is probably a power tool to do this but I prefer hand tools)

ok, thanks. even I can manage that. I was wary of buggering the ends though.

 

[micha571]

ok, thanks. even I can manage that. I was wary of buggering the ends though.

If you do that, put a nut on the screw before sawing it off. Then after shortening, turn the nut slowly off the screw, and turn it back & forth a couple of times when it's over the end of the screw. That way, you get the thread right immediately and don't run the risk of damaging the threads in the water pump when using the screws there.

 

[Hadenough]

IMHO, the Speedseal is a conspicuous waste of money - far better to put the cash towards a spare raw-water pump. On my 2GM you had to take off the pump to get at the faceplate, so a replacement pump was a far more effective solution. That I've carried over to the 3YM, mainly because, when the pump does pack in it's only a 50% chance the impeller is at fault.
Studs and butterfly nuts might be an improvement, but not over using an electric screwdriver. Perhaps that would be a more practical approach to a DIY Speedseal

Horses for courses, you keep droning on about this spare pump idea which is fine if your pump is easy to remove. It is a two hour job to remove my pump involving removal of the morse controls and the heat exchanger. I can however, just about replace the impellor in around ten minutes now that I have a speed seal.

 

[charles_reed]

Horses for courses, you keep droning on about this spare pump idea which is fine if your pump is easy to remove. It is a two hour job to remove my pump involving removal of the morse controls and the heat exchanger. I can however, just about replace the impellor in around ten minutes now that I have a speed seal.

You are, indeed, afflicted. Most reasonably designed marine engines have easy access to things like filters, dipsticks, raw water pumps and alternators.

 

[ghostlymoron]

You are, indeed, afflicted. Most reasonably designed marine engines have easy access to things like filters, dipsticks, raw water pumps and alternators.

Mine hasn't

 

[PetiteFleur]

I had decided to fit one but unfortunately they don't do one for my engine. I had considered knurled thumbscrews but I don't think they would be tight enough to compress the paper gasket.

I got some stainless knurled thumb screws from ebay a few weeks ago - from memory about £10 for a pack of 3. My Beta 25 has an 'O' ring in the cover and the the thumb screws work well, I also grease the 'O' ring when re-assembling.

 

[snooks]

Yes, but I think your quote is of US law, and UK law is somewhat different, at least in interpretation.

Sorry you thunk wrongly, it was from UK law:

https://www.gov.uk/patent-your-invention/overview

Copying someone's patented design for your personal use is not an experiment, it's copying someone's design.

Even if there isn't a patent in place, it would likely be covered by the Copyright, Designs and Patents act 1988 and therefore it's still an infringement.

If someone copies one of my images or uses it without my permission, whether it's on a blog, a print in their home or whatever, it's copyright infringement under CDP act 1988.

But seeing the OP has decided to just change the thumb screws, all this is a bit pointless now.

 

[Hadenough]

You are, indeed, afflicted. Most reasonably designed marine engines have easy access to things like filters, dipsticks, raw water pumps and alternators.

Virtually the only thing that is inaccessible on my engine is, unfortunately the raw water pump. To mitigate the risk of impellor failure I fitted a Speedseal life. I can now change the impellor in short order and if necessary at sea. It also gives me the (proven for me) run dry ability which, with a raw water alarm means that I can turn the engine off before the impellor is trashed. I could buy a spare pump at twice or three times the cost of a Speedseal but would still not have the safeguards that this simple, if albeit expensive piece of kit gives me. It will probably horrify you to hear that I am so "afflicted" that I also have one on my genset which, as I have posted elsewhere has saved me three impellers (probably £45) this season alone. Horses for courses :encouragement:

No I don't have any connection with them, just an oldish (ie not a dinosaur) satisfied customer.

 

[jdc]

If someone copies one of my images or uses it without my permission, whether it's on a blog, a print in their home or whatever, it's copyright infringement under CDP act 1988.

You take photos, I do inventions - about 100 active patents with my name on to date - and have litigated (and been litgated against!) several times, albeit always in that litigious country, the USA. The thing about the differences between UK and US law is not particularly the wording of the laws, but the allowable defences and possible damages (and US states differ between themselves). What is constant is that it's a civil matter, and so there has to be material damage to the litigant, which I doubt would apply to a one-off for personal use.

But as you say, it's pretty irrelevant anyway in the circs!

 

[superheat6k]

My Lister Petter LPW3 has the water pump right against a partial bulkhead.

I am not carrying a spare impeller which is stupid and irresponsible yet I have not been able to find a spare for what is fitted. Numerous posts suggest that the entire pump needs to be replaced in case of failure which I just do not believe. It was serviced in a yard last year so I need to find out what records they kept on how they replaced the bits.

So the plan is to cut through wood for decent access and measure up the sizings and work out how to easily, meaning quickly, replace the impeller. I am sure there is something generic out there. Just need the time to investigate!

Your pump is listed on page 535 ...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0w6acer1s8qtu87/Johnson Pumps (detailed).pdf?dl=0

Earlier in the manual you should find the drawing by pump number with all parts listed. The impeller is 09-810B-1

Worth noting the cover screws on Johnson Pumps are mostly 10-32UNFX8 and not M5 which is slightly fatter and can burst the casing as it is tight in the hole.

 

[ghostlymoron]

That explains why m4 don't fit.
I think mine are 5/32" unf (3.97mm). If I can remove the pump, I can tap them out to 4mm but the thread pitch might be different.

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

Most probably the size is "8-32" and the outside diameter ia 4,166mm. Many years ago I asked my late sister to get me a length of SS threaded rod when she was visiting from Canada. At that time threaded rod in anything that was not metric was unobtainable here.

I Loctited short lengths in the pump body and turned some large diameter knurled nuts out of 12mm brass rod. I already had the 8-32 taps from another project. Just a small Saturday morning job if you have the right tools