Spanish Government trying to interfere with other nations' boat safety regulations

[Dingbull]

That is your opinion, but that is very different from claiming that what they are considering is illegal.

Well, it is illegal from the very moment there is a Law of higher order which says otherwise. In this case, the Spanish Civil Code clearly states that ships, aircraft and means of transport by railroad are under the regulations of the state flag, or the place of matriculation or registry. A straightforward application of what is called "principle of the hierarchy of norms", commonplace within the legal community, leads to the conclusion that any such regulation is illegal ad limine litis.

I think the Spanish Government are shooting themselves in the foot with this. But this is my own opinion, of course.

 

[Dingbull]

Well it'd be a bit unfair on their own citizens if the law applied to them but not to foreigners!

Yes, there is quite a lot to be said about that!

It is not only a discrimination between Spanish citizens and foreigners, but also between foreigners residing in Spain and abroad, and even between foreigners who own a boat and skipper her themselves, and those hiring a skipper residing in Spain.

EU citizens have the same rights throughout the whole EU territory, don't they?

 

[Graham376]

EU citizens have the same rights throughout the whole EU territory, do them?

Wherever did you get that idea?

 

[superheat6k]

A key feature and benefit of the winning of the Napoleonic wars, and most notably Trafalgar was the dominion of the seas the Royal Navy had won was to open the seas and oceans to all peaceful users. The lack of regulation in British and indeed International Waters flows directly from that decision in the early 19th Century.

The EU and its assigns seem to want to control and legislate for absolutely everything, the most of their populace ignore these rules as they feel like. Being British we will follow the rules, even if we do not like them. This is likely because until 1975 (or whenever it was) we had so few of the to worry about.

Thank goodness these rules are still mostly not applicable here, although the loss of freedom by a thousand cuts is so insidious that one only realises freedom has been stolen from you after the theft.

 

[Graham376]

The EU and its assigns seem to want to control and legislate for absolutely everything, the most of their populace ignore these rules as they feel like. Being British we will follow the rules, even if we do not like them.

Unfortunately, as this thread shows, some Brits feel they shouldn't have to follow the rules in other States because we don't have any. OTOH, they no doubt expect visitors/residents/immigrants to the UK to abide by our laws and rules.

 

[jordanbasset]

Sounds like the Spanish are 'taking back control'

 

[oldgit]

Sounds like the Spanish are 'taking back control'

 

[capnsensible]

Drama queens, relax.

I have Spanish residency and a Brit flagged yacht, imported and tax paid. Being safety aware I keep my boat maintained and well equipped. I never have a problem with maritime authorities. :encouragement:

 

[Dingbull]

Drama queens, relax.

I have Spanish residency and a Brit flagged yacht, imported and tax paid. Being safety aware I keep my boat maintained and well equipped. I never have a problem with maritime authorities. :encouragement:

You will if this Orden Ministerial is ever passed. It is not that you are safety aware - most of us sailors are; it is that the Spanish Government will force you to be safety aware their way, not yours. Just take a look at the draft. The link is in the very first post of this thread.

 

[colind3782]

I downloaded the "Orden" a few days ago when I first came across it and I have managed to decipher most of it with my bad Spanish and the help of Google but it would be helpful if there was an English version available.

 

[RichardS]

A key feature and benefit of the winning of the Napoleonic wars, and most notably Trafalgar was the dominion of the seas the Royal Navy had won was to open the seas and oceans to all peaceful users. The lack of regulation in British and indeed International Waters flows directly from that decision in the early 19th Century.

The EU and its assigns seem to want to control and legislate for absolutely everything, the most of their populace ignore these rules as they feel like. Being British we will follow the rules, even if we do not like them. This is likely because until 1975 (or whenever it was) we had so few of the to worry about.

Thank goodness these rules are still mostly not applicable here, although the loss of freedom by a thousand cuts is so insidious that one only realises freedom has been stolen from you after the theft.

+1 to all that. :encouragement:

Richard

 

[Boathook]

Safety regs are a good thing ... We need much tougher regulations in the UK

Why do we require tougher regulations for safety? Boating in the UK is just as safe as the countries with safety regs controlling what must be carried, etc.

 

[langstonelayabout]

Much of this is common sense. Some of it is stupidity and shouts of having listened to master mariners who learned their profession in the Spanish navy.

I'm sure I'm one of the many here who would regard a sextant, tables and stopwatch as being superfluous on a 25' yacht sailing around the Rias.

Interesting also to see that craft will not be allowed to go out in waves above their directive design height nor beyond their directive design distance from shore. I guess this will increase the value of older boats...

 

[PuffTheMagicDragon]

EU citizens have the same rights throughout the whole EU territory, don't they?

No they don't! They have the same rights as the citizens of the country that they are visiting, which is not the same thing.

 

[Contest1]

I would hazard a guess it might have something to do with the amount of Spanish citizens who have their boats registered in other EU states such as Belgium.
Clearly an attempt to avoid the fairly strict regulations imposed here.

 

[DownWest]

Mentioned this before, but 'a few' french have their boats on the SSR. I chatted to one, who was a bit concerned about his reception in the UK when shadowing a group of smaller boats there. His was a 45ft Ketch. His English was sketchy and he used his daughter's address in Uk for the reg. Basicly to avoid the French Rules, as are the ones who reg in Belgium.

It is a mix of the Napolionic mindset, where it is forbidden if there are not a set of rules, verses the UK attitude, where it is OK if there are no specific rules. As said, the rules in the Mainland Continent don't seem to preduce safer boating, but do provide a few jobs and sales of boat kit.
So, not surprised if the host country wants it's citoyens to comply with 'their' rules esp if it avoids tax. Also, people who stay for long periods in a country might expect to comply with local rules..

 

[robertj]

Safety regs are a good thing ... We need much tougher regulations in the UK

Why?

 

[Contest1]

Why?

Not in favour of strict regulation but some of those Captain Calamity stories makes you wonder if there should be some minimum regulation to prevent idiots putting the coast guard and lifeboat crews to the trouble and risk of rescuing them only to find the same people in more bother a day or two later.

 

[RichardS]

Not in favour of strict regulation but some of those Captain Calamity stories makes you wonder if there should be some minimum regulation to prevent idiots putting the coast guard and lifeboat crews to the trouble and risk of rescuing them only to find the same people in more bother a day or two later.

I doubt whether any level of regulation is going to stop Captain Calamity putting to sea ..... unless there are thousand of Officers in patrol boats checking on everyone. :ambivalence:

Richard

 

[Graham376]

I doubt whether any level of regulation is going to stop Captain Calamity putting to sea ..... unless there are thousand of Officers in patrol boats checking on everyone. :ambivalence:

Richard

The Portuguese are heavily regulated and have to be qualified for different categories. They drive power boats with total disregard for others, passing close to loaded inflatables at speed and using the moorings as a slalom course. The Policia are no better.