SPADE Anchor Safety WARNING

[petery]

If the problem is claimed to be in the manufacture or design of the product, you talk to the manufacturer not the retailer or distributor or the 'supply chain'.

I was simply wondering whether the report's authors simply 'replayed' the views of the owner of the boat or contacted the manufacturer directly - but as you say it's a minor detail and I can't see any problems with my Spade anchor.

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[[448]]

A couple of questions pertinent to this debate.

How many of us secure the pin on the shackle connecting the cable to the anchor(any type)?

How many of us has lost an anchor because the pin has fallen out?

I suspect that the answer to both is 'not many', so why would a bolt if properly secured with a nyloc nut fall out?

Cheers, Dave.

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[MainlySteam]

Oh my goodness here we go again.

In my experience the MSA ALWAYS provide a copy of the draft report to interested parties prior to publication and that would be especially so for an item of equipment leading to a loss. Spade, or whoever represented them either did not get a draft (unlikely) or did not bother to correct the Britain bit if it was in error.

For some years I managed a company which was responsible for safety services to more than 2,000 commercial vessels under the jurisdiction of the MSA. I do not recall one instance of any of any accident report relating to any of those vessels where the draft report was not provided to us for comment before the final version was published. There were many reports a year as investigations are performed for even quite minor accidents such as small injuries, any small mishaps, close encounters, etc.

I think your wondering if they just "replayed the views of the owner of the boat" is probably rather naive and indicates little understanding of marine (and other transportation) accident investigative and reporting processes.

John


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[snowleopard]

Re: a grudge or alterntative agenda

having now read the website i understand where diederik is coming from. my point was that he as he is making an attack on a business he should have declared his interest in the matter.

i have no interest in the spade, indeed i have been put off it by the constant promotion on this site. i think however that in their place i would now be producing a one-piece version.

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[petery]

You have the endearing habit of talking sense and then spoiling it with an unecessary dig.

The facts and your opinion are good enough to make a point.

I use the forum precisely because I have 'little understanding of marine accident procedures' ... and lots of other subjects as well!!




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[Gunfleet]

New Spades have both nylocs and split pins - sort of belt and braces

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[Gunfleet]

You don't really need a square root table for numbers under 50 peter (eg 7x7) as long as you don't want an answer to 3 decimal places!

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[sundance]

He probably wasn't using the right spade?

Perhaps it is not yet time to 'call a spade a spade'?



p.s. Why aren't you all out sailing anyway?

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[peterb]

I agree. In fact most boats do carry square root tables in hidden form as tables of horizon distances. But I'm told that the RYA dropped the system because most people couldn't work out square roots. With modern maths teaching, I'm not surprised.

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[tsenator]

Re:I agree with Werbcraft-have you SEEN the SPADE

I'm a Yank and have NO aliance to a French based company BUT I have had a Spade 100 (Steel version) for over 2 years now and I am very happy with it. I have had a CQR and a Danforth and they both seemed to work well, but the Spade just seems a notch better It seems to set immediately and well the first time and resets everytime there is a tide shift etc. (knock on wood...don't want to jinx myself). It kind of fit on my old roller but I modified it for the SPADE and it fits very well now and it is now self launching AND self retrieving. I put a remote anchor windlass switch in the cockpit and I can drop and retrieve the anchor while short handling the boat. Priceless !

Here are some pics of my set up http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4289197805



I have read about that story below and initially I was alarmed, but then there are a few things that just don't add up. Plus one must remember that they lost their boat (Keel came up through the hull on a just 2 thumps on sand in the surf !? I guess its safe to say this boat isn't a Westsail. Plus How bad could the surf had been if just moments before they had a crew member up the mast And at 2 am !!!!?...). Also note that the reports claim lighter winds ~ 0-10 knots of wind. It sounds like they made sure they put together a story that works well to sue somebody to recover the costs of losing the boat as they didn't have insurance. PLEASE remember this point, I think it means something. Yes my heart goes out to these guys, but still it doesn't add up.

Yeah yeah I know that the New Zealand Safety Authority wrote up that “the anchor failed when the bolt securing the two parts of the anchor fell out” and “that this could reasonably be attributed to the failure of the nut that secured it” In my opinion, it is very likely that the investigator’s conclusion is Not right ! (oh...... like that never happened before..he he). The shank is inserted into a socket on the blade and retained by a stainless steel bolt with a “Nyloc” style nut. During normal operation there is no load on this bolt as the substantial socket assembly takes all the force. There is NO WAY for the shank to come out of that socket when being pulled in the direction to hold .Spade anchors are designed to dismantle into two pieces for stowage. (Very much like a old style Luke Fishermans Anchor http://www.peluke.com/Storm_Anchors/storm_anchors.html ) But you can't pull that shank out in the direction of holding...with or without that bolt. Don't believe me, just go to a boat show or a chandlery and see how the shank is inserted in the anchor face, there is no way for the anchor shank to come out of that anchor face while anchored or while the chain rode is still attached....its impossible.

Something sounds very fishy here and I'll say it right here. Possibly the nut, bolt and blade were removed after the grounding. Reading further into the story apparently no attempt was made to recover the anchor until three days after the grounding. During this time somebody could have removed the blade. In fact wouldn't someone have actually pulled in the anchor rode **immediately** to try and kedge the boat. I know I would have! They would have immediately made comment about the anchor losing its face. Why did it take 3 whole days to get the anchor? The FIRST thing I would have looked at would be the anchor line. Why not pull it in if all there is left is a shank and why was it "buoyed"?.....Something sounds fishy here -- very fishy
PS. (Not to mention some other indiscretions including them only having a rode of rope/chain (when taking freeboard into account) of approximately 2.88:1)

This seems to be the only account of this ever happening - take it for what its worth - but I still say its impossible to lose the face of the Spade anchor if you still have the rode attached to you boat. The most that I could ever expect to happen if you lose that bolt is that possibly the face of the anchor could go askew in relation to the shank. But losing it - Never.

Now for someone who does some serious cruising -- Morgans Cloud a boat that does full time Blue water & "high altitude" sailing really likes their SPADE anchor saying " We think this anchor is the next best thing to sliced bread! It sets immediately and holds in almost any bottom, including thick kelp."
http://www.morganscloud.com/stuff.htm



ps. I have no connection to Spade or the company or any company that sells marine equipment -- I am just a simple boater -- but I felt the need to balance out what seems to be a questionable story


Remember WHY all the posting from the original "Lossee" He's trying to win some money for the loss of his boat. But there are WAY TOO MANY INCONSISTENCES !!

If it WAS an endemic failure, I think we would have heard about more than just one .

Just a Yanks HO (humble opinion)


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