Soldering three cables

[RogerFoxTerrier]

While YouTube is awash with soldering vids - I can't find any help with something I'd have thought would be common.

If I run a 12v cable aft, then want to split it between (for example) port and starboard nav lights, how do I make the connection? To test, I've done it with Wago connectors, but I believe only soldering and heat-shrinking is a robust solution for marine environment. Yes I can solder three together (very messily!) But then you can't get a heat shrink over!

I'm sure this is really simple, but I need advice please!

 

[PaulRainbow]

While YouTube is awash with soldering vids - I can't find any help with something I'd have thought would be common.

If I run a 12v cable aft, then want to split it between (for example) port and starboard nav lights, how do I make the connection? To test, I've done it with Wago connectors, but I believe only soldering and heat-shrinking is a robust solution for marine environment. Yes I can solder three together (very messily!) But then you can't get a heat shrink over!

How many solder connections can you find on your boat ? Can't find any on mine.

I'm sure this is really simple, but I need advice please!

Use Wago connectors and if in a damp environment put them in a small waterproof enclosure or wrap them in self amalgamating tape. Soldering is not the answer.

 

[RogerFoxTerrier]

How many solder connections can you find on your boat ? Can't find any on mine.

Er, all of them!!

Use Wago connectors and if in a damp environment put them in a small waterproof enclosure or wrap them in self amalgamating tape. Soldering is not the answer.

OK - that would make life easier! I assume I should still tin the ends of the wires where they join the connectors?

 

[RogerFoxTerrier]

Er, all of them!!


OK - that would make life easier! I assume I should still tin the ends of the wires where they join the connectors?

And now I think about it, that's ok for hidden wires, but where joins are on view (e.g. cabin lights) it's going to look ridiculous...

 

[ylop]

Er, all of them!!

I've always been told that solder creates a stiff point in the wire which doesn't like the vibrations on a boat and ultimately leads to breaking. As as result I've never done it, but I am a bit sceptical that soldered, heat shrunk and properly supported that this is real BUT there's very few occasions with boat wiring where 100% permanent is actually ideal anyway!

OK - that would make life easier! I assume I should still tin the ends of the wires where they join the connectors?

In an ideal world you are using tinned cable anyway. Soldering the end will still create a stiff point so I wouldn't. Some people like to crimp on a ferrule, that's neater and if you were making and breaking the connection a lot would prevent fraying but for a lot of use its probably just one more failure mode!

And now I think about it, that's ok for hidden wires, but where joins are on view (e.g. cabin lights) it's going to look ridiculous...

there are some reasonably neat junction boxes around (including for wago) if you are going to have wiring on view - its not like solder and shrink wrap looks like its just come out the superyacht factory.

 

[Ammonite]

Gelbox Protects Connectors from Moisture

https://hilltop-products.co.uk/heat-shrink/heat-shrink-breakout-boots-and-moldings.html

 

[thinwater]

Er, all of them!!


OK - that would make life easier! I assume I should still tin the ends of the wires where they join the connectors?

In the US solder-only connections are not accepted. The problem is that at high load the solder can soften and the connection can come apart, leading to a possible short or sparking. Solder plus crimp is OK. There are exceptions for very small wires and battery lugs.

No, Wago spring-type connectors do not require tinned ends or ferrules. Read the instructions.

No you do NOT tin the ends where wires insert into connectors for most purposes. Under high load the solder softens and the connection can loosen, causing high resistance and more heat. I've seen this in industry. This is specifically frowned upon for screw-type connections. Read the instructions for the connector.

Screw connectors should include a pressure plate for stranded wire. If the screw bears dirrectly on the wire it will damamge strands. these connectors are rated for solid, not stranded, wire. Common with cheap terminal blocks. A crimp-on ferrule is a solution.

---

A fire off-shore on a boat is no joke, worse in many ways than a house fire. There is no where to go. In the past 40 years I've had two incipient fires off-shore, both cause by POs that took wiring shortcuts. Both were tense situations.

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

While YouTube is awash with soldering vids - I can't find any help with something I'd have thought would be common.

If I run a 12v cable aft, then want to split it between (for example) port and starboard nav lights, how do I make the connection? To test, I've done it with Wago connectors, but I believe only soldering and heat-shrinking is a robust solution for marine environment. Yes I can solder three together (very messily!) But then you can't get a heat shrink over!

I'm sure this is really simple, but I need advice please!

Connect to the first unit and loop to the second! That's two cables

 

[thinwater]

Generally that is something I avoid, but every time I have used a good heat shrink with a generous amount of adhesive, it easily sealed around both wires, and between them as well. Is this a non-problem?

 

[st599]

OK - that would make life easier! I assume I should still tin the ends of the wires where they join the connectors?

Soldering isn't recommended for environments where there is a lot of vibration - the wire becomes brittle and can snap.

 

[thalassa]

I use these gel connectors, available on Amazon.

 

[RogerFoxTerrier]

Thanks all. There are cable joins, mostly soldered, all over our boat, so I'm a bit worried now!

 

[KevinV]

View attachment 194610I use these gel connectors, available on Amazon.

Prepare for incoming fire - very much frowned upon

(I use them too occasionally)

 

[KevinV]

Thanks all. There are cable joins, mostly soldered, all over our boat, so I'm a bit worried now!

You have no heavy duty electricals on board - instruments and led lights aren't going to melt anything. The charging side may be a different matter, and a tiller pilot if you have one - get those right. The rest you can tidy up as and when.

As for your original question - Y joints are an abomination, they're never water tight.

 

[thinwater]

Roger:

As Kevin pointed out, if you have no high loads and are not crossing oceans, I would not stress too much. There is such a thing as good enough. I've had different standards on different boat I have owned, depending on the purpose of the boat.

I would examine all connections for corrosion, tightness, strain relief (no wire should be pulled on by excessive vibration or gravity) and general security, and re-do any that look dodgy.

The need for watertightness varies with the location. For example, the fuse/breaker panel is not watertight. The internals of most marine appliances are not. LED cabin lights mostly are, but older interior lights certainly never were. Security and safety from breaks and shorts is important in the cabin, but not perfect watertightness. There is nothing wrong with two wires in a single heat shrink opening for LED lighting wires in the cabin. No prohibition in the code or even a requirement for sealing at all (insulation yes, of course). Not that different from wiring in the cabin of a car (different from a house in that there is more vibration). But things on deck (nav lights), in the bilge (the pump), and around the engine (extreme vibration and possible water spray) must be wired to a very high standard if they are to be reliable.

The main things for an older coastal boat is to examine existing connections for corrosion and proper fusing.

 

[PaulRainbow]

View attachment 194610I use these gel connectors, available on Amazon.

Quite possibly the very worst connector you can use on a boat.

 

[Refueler]

Thanks all. There are cable joins, mostly soldered, all over our boat, so I'm a bit worried now!

Like thousands of other boats ................

 

[Refueler]

Anyone remember the 'Scotch press' connectors ?? Car Audio people and various loved those .... blue plastic bodies with blade inside that when you inserted the wires and pressed the connector closed - the blade cut into the insulation through to the wire itself.
I never trusted them years ago - but later saw gear that had been connected with them many years before and still surviving pretty harsh environment ..

 

[thinwater]

Anyone remember the 'Scotch press' connectors ?? Car Audio people and various loved those .... blue plastic bodies with blade inside that when you inserted the wires and pressed the connector closed - the blade cut into the insulation through to the wire itself.
I never trusted them years ago - but later saw gear that had been connected with them many years before and still surviving pretty harsh environment ..

Not in my expereince. Very unreliable and I've replaced many on trailers. If I was given a pack I would bin them on the way home.

 

[PaulRainbow]

Like thousands of other boats ................

Seriously, "There are cable joins, mostly soldered, all over our boat" which boats do you know of (in the thousands) where most of the cable joins are soldered.

I'd like to know, because i've never, ever, seen such a thing on any boat i've worked on. In fact, it's rare to find any joins soldered.