Solar Navigation Lights - any UK users?

[frlrubett]

Marine Scene are selling these Solar Powered Masthead lights, click Here to view,

The information provided with them is a bit ambiguous..

Continuous Working Time ＞12h

Solar Power (about 3days of strong sunlight to fully recharge)

Anyone have practical experience using these?

 

[andsarkit]

If it takes 3 days to charge and one night to discharge it won't be much use for a voyage of more than 24 hours.

 

[frlrubett]

Well my thinking is, if I night sail (and anchor) during the warmer season. The lights are needed for 6/8 hours in the night pending on month. The next day, they will charge somewhat.. impossible to predict. So would get two nights from a full charge and then they would have recharged meaning mostlikely to get three nights from them minumum.

IF their "data sheet" is correct!

 

[Rappey]

Shouldnt a tri colour have a minimum visibility of 2nm, not 1nm like this solar one? I did try and google it but got bored..

 

[frlrubett]

Good point. Completely useless product?

In vessels of less than 12 m in length:

- a masthead light, 2 miles;
- a sidelight, 1 miles;
- a sternlight, 2 miles;
- a towing light, 2 miles;
- a white, red, green or yellow all-round light, 2 miles.

BUT

Loads of people use this, with 1 mile.

AAA LED Tricolour/Anchor Light

 

[Refueler]

If it takes 3 days to charge and one night to discharge it won't be much use for a voyage of more than 24 hours.

It does have a switch ...... I assume it recharges when switched off.

 

[thinwater]

• Not very bright.
  • SOS is 10 miles in the US, not 3 miles.
  • The stern tricolor needs to be 2 miles.
• That's 12 hours when it's new. I wonder how long it is after 5 years.
  • 1 year warranty.
• You still need a steaming light
  • The steaming light is supposed to be 2/3 of the way up, not at the top (the "masthead" in nav light parlance is not the top of the mast).
  • If you use a top-of-mast light for a steaming light, then you need deck level nav lights.

But the real dinger is that it does not meet COLREGS. Says so right in the ad. Or more by implication, Lonako lists all of their other navlights as meeting COLREGS, but not the solar ones.

Also, Marine Super Store is advertising falsely. They list it as a navigation light, but Lonako only lists it as a positioning light, a phrase with no meaning.LNK-PL-RGW Solar Positioning Light-SOLAR POSITIONING LIGHT-SOLAS Lifejacket light | Lifebuoy light | Liferaft light

And I would not give Lonako points for honesty. If a "nav" light does not meet COLREGS it serves no purpose and should not be sold. Sort of like a rock climbing rope that does not meet UIAA standards. And Lonako is not the only company that sell fake nav lights.

This is not a nav light.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

If it has a switch then there must surely be a wire up the mast, so why on earth not just wire to vessel electrics?

Perhaps better than nothing on a small boat used mostly as a daysailer, and with only outboard thus with no battery charging potential

 

[thinwater]

If it has a switch then there must surely be a wire up the mast, so why on earth not just wire to vessel electrics?

Perhaps better than nothing on a small boat used mostly as a daysailer, and with only outboard thus with no battery charging potential

a. Wireless.

b. If it does not meet COLREGS it isn't legal. But yes, better than nothing, which is common on tenders.

The other common need is lights for moorings. At least in the US, unless it is one of relatively few specifically listed anchorages, a light is required. That the boat is on a mooring of that it is a commercial or city mooring field is not enough. But most boats are not lit.

 

[oldmanofthehills]

a. Wireless.

b. If it does not meet COLREGS it isn't legal. But yes, better than nothing, which is common on tenders.

The other common need is lights for moorings. At least in the US, unless it is one of relatively few specifically listed anchorages, a light is required. That the boat is on a mooring of that it is a commercial or city mooring field is not enough. But most boats are not lit.

THE USA laws for light on mooring must be Harbour Regs not CoLregs

Colreg doesnt mention tenders, though out of prudence I carry a torch at night if any other craftabout

Whatever Colreg says, any light is better than no light - legally an attempt to comply. My fear is that buyers are mislead to assume that their product gives full compliance

 

[Daydream believer]

• You still need a steaming light
  • The steaming light is supposed to be 2/3 of the way up, not at the top (the "masthead" in nav light parlance is not the top of the mast).
  • If you use a top-of-mast light for a steaming light, then you need deck level nav lights.

Deleted

b. If it does not meet COLREGS it isn't legal.

Are you sure about the steaming light. I was told that one yacxht supplier was delivering yachts with the steaming & stern light at the masthead as one light also acting as anchor light. Where did you get the 2/3 dimension from I do accept one still need Port & stbd lights but we are talking about the white light.

What makes a light illegal just because it is non compliant with colregs. It may not be intended to comply with colregs & may be for another reason. That does not make it generally "illegal"

 

[thinwater]

• I said I was talking about US anchor light law. I don't think I implied that was related to COLREGS. I said "at least in the US" which I think was clear.
  • I assume the UK has some rule about anchor lights on coastal and inland waters.
  • COLREGS does not list any exceptions for anchor lights, unless tight to a warf. COLREGS does not make any exceptions for boats that are on a mooring, siting as an example a barge that is moored to buoys.
  • Individual countries are free to declare exceptions in inland waters, which would include most harbors.
• Unless you are navigating rivers, my understanding is that COLREGS is international. Is that incorrect? Yes, there is the potential that these could be installed on small non-powered sailing vessels, which do not require lights. It is also possible (unlikely in western countries) that a country could have different inland rules. But that isn't what anyone was talking about. What I was was mentioning is that:
  • The white aft light does not meet COLREGS.
  • The manufacture does NOT claim they meet COLREGS, which they do claim for other products. They do not even call them navigation lights, for that reason. The are marketed as "positioning lights."

Calling them illegal was a little strong. They could be legal on a boat that had no legal requirement to be lit (non-powered boat). But only a little, because Marine Super Store's ad appears to be intentional deception.

Better than nothing? Yes, for a non-powered dinghy. Not so much for a boat with a legal requirement, if it is used as a cheaper, easier replacement. If you are involved in an incident and the other party has a smart lawyer, you will be considered improperly lit. Not good.

 

[requiem]

• You still need a steaming light
  • The steaming light is supposed to be 2/3 of the way up, not at the top (the "masthead" in nav light parlance is not the top of the mast).
  • If you use a top-of-mast light for a steaming light, then you need deck level nav lights.

I'm reminded of a time earlier this year, when doing a pre-cruise on a boat. I flip on the switch for the nav lights then do the standard walk-around to make sure they're working. I get to the bow and see no lights. It's not that the lights are dead, rather I can't even locate the fixtures. Took me a while before I realized they were partway up the mast. (No, not a tricolour either; the masthead light in this case was at the top of the mast.)

THE USA laws for light on mooring must be Harbour Regs not CoLregs

Colreg doesnt mention tenders, though out of prudence I carry a torch at night if any other craftabout

From a US perspective (i.e. court interpretation of the Colregs, not local regs), there's no difference between running a line to an anchor on the bottom and running a line to a buoyed line that's attached to an anchor on the bottom. I.e. anchor lights must be displayed in either case.

I recall the UK also deciding that some vessels don't actually count as vessels for Colregs purposes; in the US a tender is considered no different from any other vessel and thus is subject to the lighting provisions for its size and type.

 

[Stemar]

I have a solar anchor light that I got while Jazzcat's masthead light wasn't working. It's automatic - comes on at sunset and goes off at dawn. In S England, it's OK during the summer but, when the nights draw in, it fades away before dawn. I don't know if it meets Colregs, but it's adequate for the places I anchor. Now the masthead light is working, I tend to use both.

 

[wonkywinch]

Now the masthead light is working, I tend to use both.

Which in itself is a breach of Rule 30 surely?

Back to the topic, the solar panel on that light looks like one of those cheap garden lights that barely lasts a year. They use the cheapest rechargeable batteries inside which don't last that long either.

 

[Daydream believer]

Which in itself is a breach of Rule 30 surely?

Rule 30 does not say that one cannot have additional lighting- does it?

 

[oldmanofthehills]

From a US perspective (i.e. court interpretation of the Colregs, not local regs), there's no difference between running a line to an anchor on the bottom and running a line to a buoyed line that's attached to an anchor on the bottom. I.e. anchor lights must be displayed in either case.

Are the moorings around the USA really full of boats all with anchor lights on, even the small creeks and sea connected rivers?

I thought USA was the Land of The Free, not the land of pointless legislation. Almost no one has anchor lights on in moorings in the UK except those whose lights are solar auto and never disabled. In the UK one puts anchor lights on if anchored in a possible fairway or places where other voyager might not expect to come across a boat

 

[thinwater]

Are the moorings around the USA really full of boats all with anchor lights on, even the small creeks and sea connected rivers?

I thought USA was the Land of The Free, not the land of pointless legislation. Almost no one has anchor lights on in moorings in the UK except those whose lights are solar auto and never disabled. In the UK one puts anchor lights on if anchored in a possible fairway or places where other voyager might not expect to come across a boat

How is a boat on a mooring less in need of a light than a boat that is anchored? They are both stationary in the water, located at a possition not plotted on a chart. Remember that COLREGS does not recognize a difference between anchoring and mooring, and from a collision perspective, is there a sufficient difference?

• If it is a remote corner of a creek, perhaps you could argue that no light is needed for anchoring. I wouldn't make that argument. An unlit boat in the water is a hazard to navigation. If you get hit, it's on you.
• Navigating a crowded mooring field at night with no lights is dodgy. And do visitors even know that scattered mooring exist? They are not plotted.

And what is the strong argument for no light? It's too much trouble? A very weak argument with solar systems. I think you are arguing an indefensible position in this day.

BTW, in the US the "land of the free" argument is ... embarrassing. It means you have lost your point and are pulling straws. It's not a good look. But we do have some ugly in politics. It's sad.

---

Serious question. Is there a UK reg that says boats on mooring or up a small creek do not need to be lit? I don't see any deviation from COLREGS in this regard. In fact, British law was most likely the primary source. The Thames navigation licensing and general byelaws 1993

 

[Daydream believer]

• Navigating a crowded mooring field at night with no lights is dodgy. And do visitors even know that scattered mooring exist? They are not plotted.

I would take you to task on that. At least on UK charts one will see a number of chart symbols for anchorage areas:-
Anch--Anchorage
Picture of an anchor in a dotted shape
Term " Small craft anchorage in similar dotted outline
Some others that I cannot recall at the present as they do not occur on my charts so I have not used them
So if a navigator sees these notes on a chart when navigating an estuary one might well expect to see a group of varying vessels on long term moorings without lights
I do not know about chart plotters, navionics etc. I tend to use charts for passage plans so make notes of what to look out for when approaching such areas at night.
If a visiting craft decides to moor slap in the middle of a line of tidy trots then one might expect a light to be displayed to assist returning vessels. If said vessel decideds to moor on the edge of the area one might also expect a light due to it being in a vunerable spot to passing vessels
It is just common sense really

 

[Tranona]

Serious question. Is there a UK reg that says boats on mooring or up a small creek do not need to be lit? I don't see any deviation from COLREGS in this regard. In fact, British law was most likely the primary source. The Thames navigation licensing and general byelaws 1993

That only applies to the river Thames. It is effectively a bye-law and is not precedent for anywhere else. Most rivers harbours and many anchorages are controlled by port/harbour authorities which are mostly established by their own Act and set their own bye-laws although inevitably there is a lot of commonality. Major naval ports like Plymouth and Portsmouth are controlled by the Kings Harbourmaster and have their own specific powers. Not aware of any that require boats on moorings (which are licensed by the authority) to be lit at night. Harbour charts identify mooring areas.