Solar Arch DIY

[DangerousPirate]

Still thinking about that solar arch haha.
I had a few quotes for solar arch in the meantime, and without anyone even looking yet the quotes started way above my budget, 6k and up.

Thinking of doing it myself now. I thought of getting bimini fittings and fiddle together an overhanging design. There obviously won't be any welding or tube bending for that matter only straight tubes and whatever I can do with the fittings.

1. Now I noticed from the many videos on the subject that most archs don't seem to have a 90° angle on the x-axis (front to back), rather more like 110° or so and wonder if there is a specific reason for that?

And I need to hang it over the stern otherwise my backstay will be in the way as it's a dual backstay (adjustable) and kind of central.
2. How sturdy are those bimini connectors? Would that hold up or bad idea?
3. Is welding/bending necessary or is that just for looks?
4. What kind of steel should I use, what thickness is enough?
5. Aluminium as an alternative? Strong enough?

Has anyone gone down this route?

For anyone interested: I got a Camper Nicholson 30.

The idea is to make it look somewhat like this picture, that I found online:

I know this is an expensive job, as they welded and have integrated it into the pushpit, but the idea is about the same. Maybe with, maybe without the dinghy davit. Not sure. Depends on how sturdy it can be in the end.

 

[DownWest]

I made one for a 27ft sloop. Used SS 20mm tube and bent it into two hoops, welding lugs onto the existing 'pushpit'. Some braces between the hoops. Cost was in the region of 100 euro for bits and a few hours work. Panel was around 1.20x .60 mtr. and just aft of the backstay.

In your case, you could shape everything up and then get someone to weld it together. Curves are available off the shelf and would make it less 'DIY'.

The one in your photo is certainly robust, but I wouldn't want it disfiguring my boat.

The size of tube I used is adequate for what is on top, but maybe 25mm x 1.5mm wall might be better. As for strength, I think I would rather it bent, than damaged other parts of the boat.

 

[Refueler]

Pal of mine used local DIY shops tubing and fittings .... had two large Solar's on it ... looked similar to post #1 photo ...

Lasted one year before storm ripped off one panel ... collapsed one side of tubing ....

Basically the tubing was ok until load really came on and then it just failed ... he removed the remnants ... the remaining panel has now been relegated to deck !!

I would like an arch as well for my 25ft'r ... but as DP has found out - even just fittings are not cheap !

I do have links though to fittings suppliers from when I was looking - will try and dig them out ..

 

[B27]

One problem is, if you put a stainless rail on your boat, people (quite reasonably!) expect it to be strong enough to use as a handhold/step/safety rail.
More so on the stern, when they're boarding from a tender etc.

 

[geem]

Bimini fitting with those little grub screws are not up to the job. An option would be to build it with those fittings, then take the whole thing to a welder to have the fittings seam welded. The loads on solar arches are very high. That's why you often see lots of cross bracing. Many are built with over sized tube.

 

[Grith]

Combined Bimini and solar mount with rear targa bar as support with additional 180w panel on it that tilts fore/aft.
The Bimini forward tensioning straps have been replaced with stainless support tubes and 3x180w panels over the Bimini are attached by Ferris thumb screwed clamps.
The whole lot can be tilted to allow the mast to sit on top for trailering and with some effort the whole lot detaches and lays down into the cockpit to allow the ultimate lowest limboing under obstacles.
Usually just lowering the mast with bagged main on boom still attached gets under almost all bridges and powerlines.
Not the most elegant but very effective and my high windage modern powersailer trailerable yacht doesn’t have classic lines anyway!

 

[Daverw]

When we were looking at doing ours, we looked at the Bimini fittings and found them quite loose in use on tube sections, they only use small grub screws to lock and tube fits loosely into them, not an issue for them in Bimini frames. Also the cost really starts to add up. As mentioned if used getting them welded up after would work as most of the cost for welding is if they have to come to the boat. We eventually had one fabricated after making a patten using copper and plastic tube which we then took to the fabricators workshop. Still not cheap to do as materials were over £1k,

 

[Graham376]

Bimini fitting with those little grub screws are not up to the job. An option would be to build it with those fittings, then take the whole thing to a welder to have the fittings seam welded. The loads on solar arches are very high. That's why you often see lots of cross bracing. Many are built with over sized tube.

I don't like the idea of grub screws. As you say, loads are very high especially when boat is rolling. Ours is DIY but I paid a guy to bend the 40mm x 1.5mm tubes. Since photo taken, Aerogen removed as it's shadow killed more power from the panels than it produced and panels also increased in size to 320w. Being able to tilt the panels morning and evening makes a big difference to output.

 

[Kelpie]

We have a solar bimini rather than an arch, bit the principle is similar. 25mm tube, mixture of welding and mechanical fittings.
It's a bit ugly but it's survived 7000nm and a transat.

Do NOT rely on grub screws. Once everything is lined up, drill and tap instead, and use a proper bolt with some thread lock. Even at that, I wouldn't really trust it for a big load. Fine if it's in compression.

Ideally, for a boat our size (39ft), I would have gone up a size or two on the tubing. But I chanced upon a job lot of 25mm stainless and couldn't say no.

Edit to add: you can delete some fittings if you crush the end of a tube flat and then drill through it. Much stronger than adding an eye fitting.

Also, it's certainly worth shopping around for bimini fittings. Big variation in price. There's all sorts of fittings or there, have a good look before you make any decisions.

 

[ean_p]

When we were looking at doing ours, we looked at the Bimini fittings and found them quite loose in use on tube sections, they only use small grub screws to lock and tube fits loosely into them, not an issue for them in Bimini frames. Also the cost really starts to add up. As mentioned if used getting them welded up after would work as most of the cost for welding is if they have to come to the boat. We eventually had one fabricated after making a patten using copper and plastic tube which we then took to the fabricators workshop. Still not cheap to do as materials were over £1k,

What in the materials cost £1k please Dave?

 

[ean_p]

Still thinking about that solar arch haha.
I had a few quotes for solar arch in the meantime, and without anyone even looking yet the quotes started way above my budget, 6k and up.

Thinking of doing it myself now. I thought of getting bimini fittings and fiddle together an overhanging design. There obviously won't be any welding or tube bending for that matter only straight tubes and whatever I can do with the fittings.

1. Now I noticed from the many videos on the subject that most archs don't seem to have a 90° angle on the x-axis (front to back), rather more like 110° or so and wonder if there is a specific reason for that?

And I need to hang it over the stern otherwise my backstay will be in the way as it's a dual backstay (adjustable) and kind of central.
2. How sturdy are those bimini connectors? Would that hold up or bad idea?
3. Is welding/bending necessary or is that just for looks?
4. What kind of steel should I use, what thickness is enough?
5. Aluminium as an alternative? Strong enough?

Has anyone gone down this route?

For anyone interested: I got a Camper Nicholson 30.

The idea is to make it look somewhat like this picture, that I found online:View attachment 167980

I know this is an expensive job, as they welded and have integrated it into the pushpit, but the idea is about the same. Maybe with, maybe without the dinghy davit. Not sure. Depends on how sturdy it can be in the end.

It's an alternative reply but if your not in a rush for it then as Stainless is a very forgiving material to weld it might be an option to learn to tig it yourself! The outlay is initially high but not silly and once you have the rudiments then perfecting the technique is just a question of time and effort which if your inclined is both enjoyable and rewarding.......if you then need to bail out at a later date you can just sell up the equipment and recoup the outlay ...and if you bought well maybe even turn a small profit from the equipment...! just a thought...!

 

[DangerousPirate]

Pal of mine used local DIY shops tubing and fittings .... had two large Solar's on it ... looked similar to post #1 photo ...

Lasted one year before storm ripped off one panel ... collapsed one side of tubing ....

Basically the tubing was ok until load really came on and then it just failed ... he removed the remnants ... the remaining panel has now been relegated to deck !!

I would like an arch as well for my 25ft'r ... but as DP has found out - even just fittings are not cheap !

I do have links though to fittings suppliers from when I was looking - will try and dig them out ..

Do you know what the weak point was? Did it rip out from the deck? Or where did it break?

 

[rogerthebodger]

made a sola arch for my previous boat and my cuttent boat
Both were made from 50mm dia 2 mm thick tube and has stood up to 100 km strong winds once attached to the deck and to the pushpit rails.

I also have a ladder that attach to the aft end so I can climb up to service the radar and to clean the panel.

https://flic.kr/p/WM5REc

https://flic.kr/p/VGA2gE

 

[Kelpie]

It's an alternative reply but if your not in a rush for it then as Stainless is a very forgiving material to weld it might be an option to learn to tig it yourself! The outlay is initially high but not silly and once you have the rudiments then perfecting the technique is just a question of time and effort which if your inclined is both enjoyable and rewarding.......if you then need to bail out at a later date you can just sell up the equipment and recoup the outlay ...and if you bought well maybe even turn a small profit from the equipment...! just a thought...!

I like this idea. I've never tried welding bit it would be a very useful skill to learn.
And from the little I do know, you'd be more inclined to use heavier tubing to make it easier, which might be a good thing.

 

[Refueler]

Do you know what the weak point was? Did it rip out from the deck? Or where did it break?

It was shit metal ..... it was just not up to the task ... he knew that when he put it together - but never expected to have storm winds destroy it.

 

[DownWest]

I like this idea. I've never tried welding bit it would be a very useful skill to learn.
And from the little I do know, you'd be more inclined to use heavier tubing to make it easier, which might be a good thing.

With care, you could stick weld stainless(cheapest), easier would be Mig. Best is Tig, but not so easy, unless you have some gas welding experience.

 

[Daverw]

What in the materials cost £1k please Dave?

It’s 316L polished thick wall tube, they also used tees and swept bends, the arch dimensions ended up far larger than original thought

 

[rogerthebodger]

It’s 316L polished thick wall tube, they also used tees and swept bends, the arch dimensions ended up far larger than original thought

What thickness of stainless tube did you use and what was the diameter of the tube.

My arch was bent to shape using a proper pipe bender which reduced the amount of welding required

 

[Pete7]

Bimini fitting with those little grub screws are not up to the job. An option would be to build it with those fittings, then take the whole thing to a welder to have the fittings seam welded. The loads on solar arches are very high. That's why you often see lots of cross bracing. Many are built with over sized tube.

I agree about the grub screws, so drilled and tapped mine for 5mm hex screws secured with blue Loctite. Drilling stainless with good cobalt drills at a slow speed and lubricated with oil wasn't a problem even for a 12v electric drill. Think there are 20 fittings in all.

This is worth watching:

 

[DownWest]

What thickness of stainless tube did you use and what was the diameter of the tube.

My arch was bent to shape using a proper pipe bender which reduced the amount of welding required

Exhaust shops often have decent pipe benders and would probably help you out. Since I was enjoying the idea, I made a draw bender for 20 and 25mm tube.
As I mentioned before, it is not difficult to find ready made bends, as the food trade used lots in 316L.