So, Donald Crowhurst ..... Hero, Villain, madman ...... ?

[Sy-Revolution]

It's a shame he was so worried about the money, so what if he'd become bankrupt, it's only dough afterall and well there's a welfare state here, he'd have come home to a nice coulcil house etc. Should perhaps have either turned around and come home, no one would have thought any less of him really would they, or, if he really couldn't cope with the failure, just sailed on and topped himself before the fraud and left his kids with a hero for a dad.

Don't know what I'd have done, prolly pooped my pants!

Not hero, not villain, another victim of a media frenzy??

As an aside, his sails never looked well timmed in the footage I thought............

Oh and well done RKJ for the donation, true gent!

 

[Saddletramp]

So many things that could have been overcome built into a tragic ending. I felt really sorry for his children especially that his end should be so public.

 

[Babbers]

[ QUOTE ]
But I cannot think for a moment where this slight on RKJ (the Colonel Blimp comment) is coming from...

[/ QUOTE ]

I made the comment - I read RKJs book relating to the Golden Globe race.

One thing that drove him to take part in the Golden Globe was that "the first man to circumnavigate has to be British". /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Trough the entire race he's obsessed with beating Moitessier, the only other serious contender - solely because he's French.

Then I've got more admiration for Moitessier - stick your race, I'm going round again.

 

[Sequoiah1]

Selfish is exactly what he was and that goes for all people who go off to seek adventure for whatever reasons. His sponsor was not holding him to the original contract the press agent was simply doing what that his type will do. Donald had ambition to succeed where he had seen his father apparently fail. The electronics company was failing and the technology flawed, we all take risks, Donald took his and suffered the consequences, when you listen to his wife distressed with herself for not trying to stop him, his best friend thinking the same, its sheer selfishness.
I have read the book twice and watched the film, I still feel the same about the guy but I felt the film left out a lot of detail which influence a viewers opinion of the characters involved. Its the way of the modern world, a tragic end for a damaged man. Its a great tale and a lesson for all. RKJ was the only one who came out of that race in my mind with any sanity.

 

[Sultans_Kapitein]

Rather harsh Sequoiah1. What you say could well be all there is but I had only heard bits and pieces about this story until last evening. Prior to watching the film I had always thought he was a chancer who lost it. But now I think he was a guy who tried. He tried do do something outstanding, I remember the times and the euphoria at the return of Chichester. Everyone was uplifted by it, but how many of us did anything about it? So Crowhurst tried and failed, a great shame, but he tried. And looking back now we can see what a different world it was then, no GPRS, most of his equipment was rudimentary compared to what most 'weekend sailors' have now yet he set off and went for it. It is truly sad that he became so enmeshed in his plight that he could not see the way out. I think he was a great person to try, foolish maybe but still he went out and tried.
Mal

 

[AlanPound]

[ QUOTE ]
One thing that drove him to take part in the Golden Globe was that "the first man to circumnavigate has to be British".

[/ QUOTE ]

... and your point is? /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Well, fair enough... Personally, my heart goes out to Moitessier (despite his being French /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif)

... but RKJ was surely the "hero" of the day - with Moitessier a kinda "anti-hero" (but no less in stature for that!)

Alan

 

[Blueboatman]

I am not too sure how many of those 45 odd people who have posted so far have actually spent much time alone at sea.
It is -in my very modest and limited experience-not a good place to take unresolved 'issues' and financial or other pressures that will compromise an otherwise seamanlike approach to the day to day 'real' problems of sailing the boat.
And sadly for that reason alone I would have to say that the blokes well documented slippery slide is a truly valuable gift to anyone contemplating getting out there and having a go,particularly if read alongside the experiences of Moitissier who had the luxury of a far stronger vessel,patience and perhaps access to inner strengths that eluded Crowhurst..Whatever, For inspiration in boathandling and selfreliance,Moitissier was yer man.Once he reentered society in Tahiti is perhaps another story.
As has been said though,with superior modern satellite coverage and instant comms,a laterday Crowhurst would probably be living sheepishly ashore today ?

 

[fireball]

[ QUOTE ]
In effect the first lie caused his suicide.

[/ QUOTE ]
As was said plenty of times during the film - in his opinion continuing on into the Southern Ocean would've been suicide as well as he would not have been able to bail out the leaking floats.
His father had had a heart attack shortly after running out of money on the family return to England (from India) - Donald was only 15 at the time - that must have had a profound influence on his decision not to retire.
IMO what finally caused his death was his determination not to Win through cheating and seeing no other way out.

 

[arfa]

An amazing story and I would thoroughly recommend a voyage for madmen for those that have not read it. It goes into the personalities and motivations in more detail than the film ever could. All I could say is that they were all incredibly brave and pioneering men as no one knew if it was achievable in one go. I had forgotten about RKJ's donation - a man truly worthy of his Knighthood for that act and so many others

 

[oceanfroggie]

Very sad story. All of those guys were hero's, no GPS, no Sat phones, no on board email, no video conferencing, no backup teams, but six months on their own, that was serious achivement. EMC did well too, but it wasn't quite the quite same challenge as those ecentric adventurers in their low tech boats at sea alone for such a long period. It goes to show just how big the 'human factor' is. Excellent if not depressing viewing, I really felt for his family. RKJ remains one of the true greats.

 

[Guest]

[ QUOTE ]
He was one sandwich short of a picnic to have even started the project, let alone set off. The film made me wonder how he could be allowed to make as much progress as he did. I then realised that nowadays there are stringent rules on the capabilityof both boat and crew, so he wouldnt get the boat on to the drawing board, let alone off of it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? What rules be they then? Anybody can still sail anything they want, to just about anywhere they want to.....




Thankfully!

 

[snowleopard]

If he was selfish, so is everyone who goes off chasing personal ambition, including RKJ, Chichester et al. Should we all be good family men and stay at home working to keep our nearest and dearest until it's time for pension & slippers?

There was another who jumped off the back of a boat in the South Atlantic - from one of the boats in the first British Steel Challenge. I have spoken to people who knew him and they thought it was the prospect of going from 'I'm a round-the-world yachtsman' to being a nobody again. The sea is an environment that affects people's judgement far more than we generally realise. An experienced skipper I crossed the Atlantic with said one should never take life-changing decisions until one has been ashore at least a week (he was a total dickhead but in that instance he was spot on).

 

[Speed]

There were indeed many elements of the story that didn't make the film.

I was at school in Teignmouth at the time, and knew many of the protagonists or their children.

When Donald Crowhurst arrived in Teignmouth, his boat was in a shocking state, and he, according to my father, didn't seem much better either. When a press event was called at the Royal Hotel, my father was invited (as was anyone else with a few quid) in the hope that money would be donated towards the great hope of Teignmouth. I remember asking him the next day whether he had parted company with any cash, and he said not on your life, and that in his opinion DC wouldn't get as far as Torquay.

Many of the staff at Morgan Giles' shipyard spent much time and effort beyond the call fo duty trying to make T Electron seaworthy, and received little thanks for their efforts. Many years later I asked one of them why, and he said they had felt sorry for DC, and simply wanted to help him out, although he also said that he now greatly regretted having done so, believing that if they hadn't made the boat reasonably fit to go, Donald Crowhurst would indeed not have made it to Torquay, which might well have saved his life.

And I agree that RKJ deserves every honour for his remarkable compassion and generosity at the time - surely the mark of a great man and a true human being.

 

[FAITIRA]

Agree, got to deep to go back, sad story. Not a bad man.

 

[Thistle]

[ QUOTE ]
It's a shame he was so worried about the money, so what if he'd become bankrupt

[/ QUOTE ]

In those days there was a much greater stigma attached to bankruptcy. All the factors must be taken into account when assessing a situation such as this. As the film only illustrates some of the factors, I don't think I can - or want - to come to a judgement.

Perhaps it is a strength of the film that it has left us to try to make up our own minds.

 

[l'escargot]

I think to get a real feel for the man you need to read "The Strange Voyage of Donald Crowhurst" which was an almost contemporary account and "A Voyage For Madmen" which gives the broader picture.

The film is interesting in that it brings together a lot of "documentary" information from the time, but doesn't really get under his skin. The DVD also has a lot of extra interviews (were they shown on television?).

A fascinating story, I vaguely remember it unfolding in the Sunday newspapers at the time, sad for him and his family. I would like to see Teignmouth Electron bought back and preserved, perhaps even in her current state, as a memorial of what was actually a significant story in round the world sailing.

 

[misterg]

Having only seen the film, I think initially he was brave, and very ambitious, but unfortunately signed a pact with the devil with the sponsorship deal. He knew he wasn't ready to leave, but let himself be pressured into going. I think everything followed from that. I can understand the dread of bankruptcy and the fear of leaving his family destitute, but sadly where he had a choice of bankruptcy or probable death, his course of action resulted in both. Mightily impressed by RKJ's gesture.

Not a bad man.

I felt sorry for his family, but the families of the others had almost as much to bear. I particularly warmed to Motissier's wife - what a woman!

A very interesting programme, I thought.

Andy

 

[jimi]

I watched it tonight and read the book years ago. My heart goes out to him and his family. RIP. A man like me wrestling with incompatible priorities. No judgements here.

 

[savageseadog]

[ QUOTE ]
I watched it tonight and read the book years ago. My heart goes out to him and his family. RIP. A man like me wrestling with incompatible priorities. No judgements here.

[/ QUOTE ]Great comment, so say I.

 

[Superstrath]

Just a guy who followed a path that took him to hell. Many of us follow a path that, with hindsight, could be avoided. Mostly these navigational errors on the sea of life lead to a lousy marriage, a failed business, or some other PITA or embarrassment, seldom to death and humiliation. DC’s wife has obviously been beating herself up about it since it happened, believing that she should have stopped him. It's seldom that easy, and she probably could not have stopped him anyway.
Tragic story, I think he did remarkably well in the end, considering the circumstances. The true villains being the press guy and Mr. Best, who concocted a contract that meant ruin if he lost, and a life of indebtedness if he won. A no-win situation, whatever the outcome.
Flogging the logs to show the workings for positions to support his deceit meant a lot of hard work, and must have been quite absorbing for him, Marc St Hilaire with log tables is hard enough, without doing it backwards. His shock at realising that he could not fail to win after Tetley’s retirement must have been awful for him, the last straw.
I note that Tetley could not finance another attempt, despite getting £1,000 as compensation for the Crowhurst affair, and hung himself in 1972. More tragedy around the race.
An interesting film, I think I’ll read the books now