capnsensible
Well-known member
Cornish ones are better than Devon ones.
Sleeping on the job?
- Thread starter zoidberg
- Start date
Binnacle
Active member
I do hope that was a tongue in cheek remark in both sentences. Rules 5 and 6 set out specific duties, and being a "stand on vessel" is no excuse or exoneration.
Mark-1
Well-known member
Nope, I genuinely think it's slightly less bad to blindly sail at 20 knots without a lookout on a weekday in mid winter than a weekend in summer.
I also genuinely think being
EDIT: Changed the term "stand on vessel" so Binnacle can release the pearls he's clutching.
Last edited:
Binnacle
Active member
Rule 6. "Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed...".
No case can be made, however charming a skipper is, for proceeding in the dark at 20 knots near the coast, with no lookout. Perhaps best not to use the phrase "stand on vessel" as it implies a duty on other vessels to avoid.
No case can be made, however charming a skipper is, for proceeding in the dark at 20 knots near the coast, with no lookout. Perhaps best not to use the phrase "stand on vessel" as it implies a duty on other vessels to avoid.
ylop
Well-known member
At 20 knots even a plastic boat could give any other small boat a fair skelp. She might have come off worse, but that doesn't mean the crew on the other boat would be unharmed.
Unless it was a fishing vessel, a vessel restricted in its ability to manoeuvre (say a vessel under tow).
That's good - I genuinely hope the MCA don't "give her a pass". Regardless of who she is the MCA need to send a message that failing to keep a proper lookout is a problem. Would we expect the police to ignore Lewis Hamilton falling asleep behind the wheel so long as it was in the middle of the night and he just ended up in a farmer's field?
As with most incidents there are always other factors to consider; I'm sure she is not the only decision maker about that passage - even if she has ultimate veto. I'm sure they will have views on the safety culture of singlehanded racing yachts!
In mid summer it would have been daylight.
Sandy
Well-known member
But, who does the best pasties in Fowey?
Mark-1
Well-known member
You may be in luck because I wonder if coming clean on Instagram has made that much more likely. Without the video there would likely have been no evidence she wasn't keeping a lookout. It wouldn't have gone to court because she could have said she was approaching land keeping watch and heard a noise and hit the putty whilst distracted below investigating. Good luck to the MCA proving beyond reasonable doubt that someone didn't hear a noise. That option is now gone. (Maybe that's false and there's a fitness watch or some other evidence that she was soundo.)
I respect her for fessing up and I hope they don't prosecute her. Other opinions are equally valid, of course.
Well, you could argue the Elephant in the room of single handed sailing over any distance is they cannot be maintaining a proper look-out by sight and hearing as well as by all available means appropriate. I hope 'they' continue to turn a blind eye to that, as well. Again, other opinions are equally valid.
Last edited:
[194224]
...
A minor point but the criterion used by MAIB in coming to their conclusions is "on the balance of probability" and not "beyond reasonable doubt"
Mark-1
Well-known member
I thought we were talking about criminal prosecutions. I *think* the MCA perfom a similar role to the CPS in these cases. (I could be wrong, I often am.)
[194224]
...
Ah, if it is a criminal matter then you are correct of course. I didn't realise that MCA had such authority to prosecute.
capnsensible
Well-known member
The MCA enforcement unit bring prosecutions where they think they will get a result. Normally, if I read their website correctly, for serious injury or death, etc.
I'm sure they've got better things to do than chase around at a kinda non event at the whim of ageing chunterers on an obscure boaty forum.....in my opinion.
capnsensible
Well-known member
LittleSister
Well-known member
You mean, surely, the sage considerations of those with special interest and expertise in the matter?
capnsensible
Well-known member
Yeah, oops, slip of the tongue.....You mean, surely, the sage considerations of those with special interest and expertise in the matter?
[194224]
...
Thanks, my comments were referring to MAIB investigations not MCA which was the gist of the discussion in the thread, sorry.
ylop
Well-known member
I’d go back and reread the thread then!
[194224]
...
Apologies, another correction "my comments were referring to MAIB investigations not MCA which was the gist of the discussion mentioned in the thread (#45 and #47)"
zoidberg
Well-known member
The Marine Accident Investigation Branch - MAIB to their friends - publish a quarterly Digest of 'incidents' where they have been involved and where there's some lesson to be learned. They're determinedly NOT into attaching blame, but rather underscoring lessons which may fruitfully be hoisted in by the rest of us.The MCA enforcement unit bring prosecutions where they think they will get a result. Normally, if I read their website correctly, for serious injury or death, etc.
I'm sure they've got better things to do than chase around at a kinda non event at the whim of ageing chunterers on an obscure boaty forum.....in my opinion.
Regretably, many of those lessons recur - year after year. One of the 'perennials' is the well-qualified professional falling asleep at the wheel and the boat - more usually a commercial trader or fishing vessel - running up on the putty. We all KNOW that fatigue, deep fatigue, kills....
This time, it was only a little bit of reputation and pride that was hurt.
The lesson - for all of us - remains.
dunedin
Well-known member
What I don’t understand is where was Pip’s support team when she needed them most?
These are not Jester Challenge boats, with just a solo amateur doing everything.
To campaign an IMOCA in the front half of the fleet you need to have a professional equippe. As well as boat preparateurs, and a weather router, there would generally be a shore manager handling logistics and more. Plus of course for most of this season Medalia was raced double handed, so at least one co-skipper.
Professional IMOCA support teams would surely know all about the risks - and multiple previous wrecks - from solo sailors sailing on dead tired after a race.
Everybody is prone to make bad decisions when extremely exhausted. Surely the shore team should have stepped in, either to advise (order?) to come in to Lorient to rest or to ship out a couple of people on a RIIB to meet her and to act as delivery crew?
Very odd.
These are not Jester Challenge boats, with just a solo amateur doing everything.
To campaign an IMOCA in the front half of the fleet you need to have a professional equippe. As well as boat preparateurs, and a weather router, there would generally be a shore manager handling logistics and more. Plus of course for most of this season Medalia was raced double handed, so at least one co-skipper.
Professional IMOCA support teams would surely know all about the risks - and multiple previous wrecks - from solo sailors sailing on dead tired after a race.
Everybody is prone to make bad decisions when extremely exhausted. Surely the shore team should have stepped in, either to advise (order?) to come in to Lorient to rest or to ship out a couple of people on a RIIB to meet her and to act as delivery crew?
Very odd.
Wansworth
Well-known member
Shame she could have called on one of our redoubtable members who would helped for free,less beer…or is that plus beer
