single line reefing

[poter]

I have single line reefing on Shady with a first & second reefing line brought back to the cockpit. After a few trial & errors I think we have cracked the reefing procedures & got the lines to run reasonable smoothly.
But:
Is there any way to make the reefing lines run easier? there seems to be a lot of friction & I have set it up as per the manufactures details, would better/more expensive blocks and organisers be the way to go?
Also would a solid boom vang eliminate the problem of using the topping lift every time you need to put in a reef?

poter

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[Dominic]

Single line reefing - works

I like the system.
I like it most because it works but if it goes "phut" you can cut a piece of the now useless line and reef simply in the trad manner.

Check that the lines in the boom are not crossed over each other.
Remove the lines and wash out the salt - then use fabric conditioner.
Check that the sheaves are not worn - replace the sliding block or wash it.

A solid vang would pulling the sail/boom down while you were trying to pull it up with the reefing line. Use the topping lift to take the weight off the boom while you reef. It saves ruining the sail.

The only drawback is when shaking out a reef - stand up and pull the slack out from the cockpit end of the boom if it will not run freely.

Live with it. No system is perfect. Either you have a cockpit driven system with inconvenient friction or a mast sytem with you running up and down the deck.

The final option is send one crew member to sort it while the second fetches you another G&T and the third rubs you down with scented oils. The fourth crew member slips off her...

To hear you reply;

"WHAT ! In this weather ! You must be joking."

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[poter]

Re: Single line reefing - works

Ok ta ...will give it a go today will repost this evening...

yhanks

poter

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[charles_reed]

I hesitated for a long time before fitting single-line reefing for the 1st of my 4 reefs - mainly due to fears about the amount of friction, which usually makes it impossible to use in anger.

Finally after considerable guidance from Harken US I fitted a system using their Airlite 40 blocks.
After a season of use I can safely say it's been a total success.
Essentially it gives an 8:1 purchase using Kevlar 8mm line.

If you have a look at the Harken.com site you'll see the system I've used.
Bitter end on the end of boom, running over a block on the leech of the sail, thence to two cheek-blocks at the outer and inner ends of the boom over a block on the luff of the main and thence onto a cheek-block on the mast, through the mast collar, back to the cockpit.
To really flatten the main I use the coachroof winches and find I can successfully put in a reef on the wind.
The Airlite blocks have ball-bearings and I doubt that the system would work with plain-bearing blocks, due to the frictional resistance that is the bane of any single-line reefing.


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[Peppermint]

Re: Single line reefing should run OK.

How many blockshave you got in the system?

I'd check it all through again if I were you. Check that the line sizes are OK for the blocks. Spray all of the blocks with a teflon lubricant. spray the mainsail track as well and make sure the mains coming down easily.

A single line reefing system on a 30ft boat should be really quite easy to use.

I've got a Selden system, hardly state of the art, on my 25 footer and its a one handed job till you just sweat it up at the end. As has been mentioned getting line out of the boom end can present a problem when shaking the reef out. Obviously great care is need when playing with lines at the outer end of the boom.

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[poter]

Re: Single line reefing should run OK.

Ok thanks all....
The blocks & rope organiser's on Shady are a bit old & came with her so I think I will bite the bullet & get some new Harken or Lewmar racing blocks etc.
I was thinking of treating myself to some new sail handling systems along with some mainsheet & genoa cars & this is the prime excuse.

I might even go for Kevlar ropes for the main halyard and reefing lines. Does that mean I can go down a size currently 10mm?


poter


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[charles_reed]

Don\'t go to Kevlar

Though it stretches slightly less and is tougher than Spectra/Dyneema it is subject to fatigue failure and very prone to UV degradation.
I've gradually replaced all my kevlar with Spectra/Dyneema.

Kevlar is great for flak-jackets and in composites - not for rope.

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[tome]

Hate to disagree, but...

...I'm just not happy about having deck gear hidden in my boom, and agree with Seb Clover's dad on this point. You'll never get rid of the friction no matter how many balls in the block. At the risk of alienating, single line reefing sucks.

Stick to slab reefing, and be aware that this can be brought back to the cockpit. If you have single-line it's not that difficult to revert.

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[Peppermint]

Re: It depends

I've used SL reefing systems on a large number of boats. When they're good they're good and when they're bad they're worse than useless.

I don't like hidden lines but all but the OG brigade have halyards in mast and many now have long runs of under deck trunkings.

I'd guess that single line reefing is as reliable as any other development onboard.

An easy running and well maintained system is a positive safety addition. A gear failure is unlikely to leave you any worse off than slab reefing.

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[AlanPound]

Re: Hate to disagree, but...

Tom.

"I'm just not happy about having deck gear hidden in my boom, "

... my own (fairly traditional, at the mast, reefing) has lines running through the boom, with blocks at the outer end.

... From Charles' description, it sounds as if his (single line) system has all (cheek) blocks on the outside...

... shurley, his (single line system) is more accessible than my at-the-mast system - I certainly like the sound of his better than my own.

Accordingly, if your concern is "having deck gear hidden in my boom", it is not 'single line' that is at fault - but the implementation...

Alan

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[Robin]

The Bigger Question

Why not TWO line reefing?

The 3 tack lines are easy to pull in because with the main halyard lowered (pre-marked helps) there is no load on these, just pull them in by hand, clutches are ideal but cleats would do, winch not needed.

The 3 clew lines now have no complicated multiple block systems creating friction, but they will still need winching in through clutches. To minimise friction use good quality blocks (we use Wichard Roller Bearing ones) and have the reef lines a sensible size - too big = too much friction, too small and won't grip in the clutches or self tailer winch.

Reefing procedure now is :-

Release the mainsheet
Release the Kicker (ideal is gas kicker)
Lift boom with topping lift (if no gas kicker)
Lower main halyard suitable amount (ideal is to a marked point)
Pull in tack line and cleat or use clutch
Pull in clew line, (first part can be by hand) then tension with winch through clutch
Tension main halyard
Release topping lift (if used)
Tighten kicker
Reset mainsheet

IMHO the problem with single line is that you are trying to pull in two lines together when each line has different loads on it and one has to travel farther than the other and with more friction. Very few single line systems have THREE reefs, because there is only room for 2 or less. We have 3 sets of reef lines in place ready to use, colour coded in pairs and all 3 clew lines run internally through the boom.
The system is very easy to use from the safety of the cockpit so there is no need to put off the job hoping the wind will drop. Taking reefs out is probably much easier too with the reduced friction.


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[jimi]

Re: It depends

Would agree. I've got single line reefing and bunging a reef in is no problem. The friction tends to be more of a nuisance when shaking the reef out .. but I'll put up with that minor inconvenience for the safety & convenience of being able to put a reef in with a single line from the cockpit.

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To see oursels as ithers see us!

 

[Johnjo]

Re: The Bigger Question

Im with you on this Robin, Two lines to each slab !
Just as quick and far easier to shake out again, I have cabin top winches fitted,
But its very rarely they get used, would not be without the clutches though!
I started off with single line reefing, could put the reef in okay but would have to use a winch to harden it up! To shake it out again was a right pain!


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[vyv_cox]

I hate to disagree, too

My single line system has been installed for 8 years, it's the design that has a balance block inside the boom. I made and installed it. Every block in the system (6 per line plus an organiser) is a cheap, plain bearing type. Friction is by no means excessive, the reefing system works extremely well in all conditions and I have never suffered a failure of any type.

Anticipating problems early on, I left the ramshorns on the gooseneck but they have never been used since. Single line reefing saves lots of effort and time and can be totally reliable.

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[petery]

Did you use their advertised kit or use their components to make up a more effective system with other of their components - but to the same design?

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[qsiv]

Re: Don\'t go to Kevlar

Absolutely - use spectra for halyards, Dyneema for sheets is a somewhat simplistic way of summarising it.

Dyneema has slightly higher creep (elongation under sustained load) than spectra, but is somewhat more forgiving to handle. Neither rope is mad keen on acute bends, so try to ensure that loads are taken on winches before being made off on cleats.

As for sizes - you can probably go so small you cant handle it. Our Code0 12mm halyard is rated for 7000Kg (2500 sq ft). We only need 4 tonnes of halyard tension, but the correctly sized rope is too small to fit on the winch, and almost impossible to hold when hoisting, so 12mm it was.

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[ranga]

Re: The Bigger Question

In your reefing procedure you have tightening the clew before tensioning the main halyard. I have always done it the other way around i.e. tension the halyard first and then winched in the clew, otherwise there is too much load on the luffslides when trying to tension the main halyard.

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[Robin]

Re: The Bigger Question

I hadn't thought of that but have never had a problem. On our current boat we have roller cars on a track for the fully battened main so definitely no problem, but on earlier boats have often put a reef in before leaving and before hoisting the main.

Surely there is only direct tension between the tack fitting and clew rings at boom level, not above?

Comments people?

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[AlexL]

Re: The Bigger Question

I have decided (on cost grounds, as well as simplicity) to go for the TWO line system. I am currently fitting a system whereby I have 2 tack lines with some sort of hook. When sailing with a full main, one line is the cunningham , one is the first reef. Once the first reef is in the cunningham can be unhooked and moved to the 2nd reef. This does entail going to the mast at some point, but this can be done at leisure between reefing. I can use the exisiting reefing cringles on the sail and only need 2 lines and a couple of blocks. If everything goes pearshaped I can still slab reef the main.

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[Peppermint]

Re: At least...

Your not considering in mast furling. Which truely is the work of the devil.

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