Single hand a Jeanneau 409/419?

I would agree. Sailplan on cruisers is always going to involve compromise. All about what is top of the priority list. For many that is ease of sail handling, for others it's max performance in most common conditions. How much of a compromise is made depends on the owner accepting the boat as delivered or changing the setup as experience of boat is gained and cash allows.
 
Tranona said:
The last few posts only confirm the compromises of slab reefed mains on boats with comparatively large mains - and perhaps why, accepting the limitations, in mast furling is so popular on this type of boat. This is particularly true for shorthanded sailors drawing their pensions!. The small loss of potential performance is more than offset by ease of handling and infinite variability of mainsail area rather than fixed increments. The latter are never quite right when you only have a choice of 3 (or maybe 4) fixed sail areas.
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That reminds me of my dilemma years ago when deciding whether to swap multiple jibs for roller reefing. I mourned the loss of perfect sail shape, and frankly my role as foredeck hand. If I wasn't changing jibs I wasn't sure what tasks remained in sailing as it was so much easier to reef a main or trim a sheet ( I was a lot younger then).

However I convinced myself by noticing the number of times the headsail was overcanvassed as I hoped the gusts would die or under-canvassed if I was off watch, or eating or drinking and the wind dropped. And also how other more sluggish boats would go past us whilst I was fiddling with the jibs. So the perfect sail shape and cloth weight for a particular wind strengh gave way to a less perfect shape but a size that was always adjustable to the exact wind strength.
 
RupertW said:
That reminds me of my dilemma years ago when deciding whether to swap multiple jibs for roller reefing. I mourned the loss of perfect sail shape, and frankly my role as foredeck hand. If I wasn't changing jibs I wasn't sure what tasks remained in sailing as it was so much easier to reef a main or trim a sheet ( I was a lot younger then).

However I convinced myself by noticing the number of times the headsail was overcanvassed as I hoped the gusts would die or under-canvassed if I was off watch, or eating or drinking and the wind dropped. And also how other more sluggish boats would go past us whilst I was fiddling with the jibs. So the perfect sail shape and cloth weight for a particular wind strengh gave way to a less perfect shape but a size that was always adjustable to the exact wind strength.
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To an extent that is less of an issue with the smaller headsails used in today's fractional rigs. There is less reliance on the jib and almost no overlap, so less need to reduce headsail area. On the advice from Kemps the luff was recut concave to avoid the need for padding and the sail sets very well in reefed form. This is in contrast to the poor setting reefed sails where the standard sail is 120% +.

I think much of the resistance to in mast comes from people who are used to older, often masthead rigs with overlapping genoas who don't appreciate that the latest rigs require an infinitely adjustable main in the same way that their rigs need more flexibility in foresail area.
 
....and I think much of the resistance to in mast comes from people who want to sail their boats to their full potential.

Here is a novelty to consider, perhaps the OP has more idea about what he wants from his boat than any onlooker.
 
doug748 said:
....and I think much of the resistance to in mast comes from people who want to sail their boats to their full potential.
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While that may be correct, it is clear that for many people extracting that last bit of performance out of ordinary cruising boat is of less interest than the benefits of in mast. As I have pointed out many times here the vast majority of HRs over 37' are fitted with in mast, perhaps because easy fast passage making is more important than pulling bits of string to squeeze fractions of a knot extra.

BTW if you go back to the beginning of this thread, the OP was looking for advice about single handing a fairly large boat with no or little experience so not surprisingly the initial advice was to choose a boat that was easy to handle with all the aids that reduce effort.

And just another thought - what is so superior about people who "want to sail their boats to their full potential" ? Are they special beings that have the right to deride those with different objectives?
 
In mast reefing has been mentioned to furl it the sail has to be flat to fit the groove and thus has less power than a normal curved sail. Having chartered a Benneteau 50 with in mast furling I wouldn't buy a boat with that.
 
Tranona said:
BTW if you go back to the beginning of this thread, .......
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A good idea. Stop trying to convince us the world is flat.
Dune is an experienced dinghy sailor, so it's not surprising that he wants good performance

In your various posts about your recent purchase I don't recall anyone droning on that you had made bad decisions because you didn't understand the issues. So don't try to knock the shine off this purchase because you would have done differently.

Personally I am more interested in how he gets on handling his new boat in the coming season.
 
Ease of sail handling is a relative thing. With stack pack, lazy jacks and single line reefing reducing sail area is a simple operation carried out from the cockpit. Compared to my last boat (lines at mast, no stack pack or lazyjacks) this is a dream to deal with.
IMHO fear of getting out of, and more importantly back into the marina berth is what holds novices back from sailing rather than the sail plan.
I could certainly sail Dune single handed with ease. The only slight concern is mooring but that's got diddly to do with how the sail is reduced and much more to do with current berth and difficulty in setting it up for ease of single handing.
 
doug748 said:
A good idea. Stop trying to convince us the world is flat.
Dune is an experienced dinghy sailor, so it's not surprising that he wants good performance

In your various posts about your recent purchase I don't recall anyone droning on that you had made bad decisions because you didn't understand the issues. So don't try to knock the shine off this purchase because you would have done differently.

Personally I am more interested in how he gets on handling his new boat in the coming season.
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Where have I ever "knocked the shine off his purchase"? If you look back I was (like many others with similar experiences) encouraging him to buy a bigger boat - unlike some, dare I say including your goodself, who took exactly the opposite view.
 
I spent Monday lunchtime sitting in the car next to the main marina in Empuriabrava ... all the time we were there we watched 2 guys trying to un-jam their in-mast main on a Ben/Jen/Bav of maybe 45/50 feet. At one point, one of them, who must have weighed 20 stone pulled down the bottom folding mast step, stood on it and it promptly snapped off. I nearly choked on my ham baguette! It appeared to be stuck with maybe 3 feet of the foot pulled out. After about an hour they gave up and went away!
 
Just a quick update. Last weekend we spent a very enjoyable 3 days sailing SYH to West Mersea (where we got into some rather exciting conditions and hit 9.9 knots at one point), West Mersea to Burnham and then back to SYH. Dune performed faultlessly and I am learning more and more each time we go out. 229 miles on the log now. Due to other commitments I can't sail her for the next 2 weekends but then she'll be back out again. I am absolutely over the moon with the spec I settled on. We're now looking into asymmetric options so watch this space... ;)

Thanks again Dave.
 
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