Should you have to qualify to skipper a boat in the UK?

[db631018]

Hi

I have been having an ongoing debate over here with a Spanish 'colleague' who cant believe you can use a boat in the UK without a licence or any training.

As a training establishment I obviously have a vested interest in this but it would be good to get an unbiased opinion on this from you guys.

Is it probably only a matter of time before 'Big Brother' pokes his nose in and makes it compulsary anyway?

Could be a good debate! over to you.......

 

[Iota]

you can go and buy what you want for leisure use and have no need of training or insurance, albeit many harbours require 1 or 2 million sterling third party cover.

Iota

 

[PCUK]

Make it compulsory and then all boats will also be registerd and that will be yet another nail in the UK boat industry coffin.
Brown is finishing what Thatcher started, destroying the last of the UK's industry!

 

[Kipper]

I dont think there is a place for a licence or compulsary trainning as this would just be another tax.
However i think there is a place for some basic training to be included in the purchase of a boat. I know some dealers throw some basic training in but I think PB11 should be the basic minimum provided, lets face it there is plenty of money in them, new or second hand.

Gary

 

[jonnybuoy]

Seems to me that when you take other people on the boat be they crew friends or family that you take responsibility for them in a potentially hostile environment. Consequently I for one think that there should be some minimum training requirement - maybe more as basic sea safety skills rather specific boat handling stuff.

 

[Tugw]

Im not for any more compulsary tax regardless of what they hide it under.They've screwed us enough.Passing it as law under the safety banner would be easy.I agree that maybe a sort of test before you motor away in your newly aquired toy.But for gods sake,no more nanny state involvment.I think we have enough

 

[DAKA]

If either novice skippers or unqualified skippers were an issue the Insurance companies would be either charging significantly more premium or refusing to offer cover.

I have very serious concerns regarding the quality of the tutors in the UK (based on an RYA cruise I went on for a week.)

The quality of decisions and understanding of real life Tidal races/ sea breezes/wind over tide and headland wind amplification was questionable.


Agreed legislation will proceed and idiots will be advised by more idiots.

 

[Observer]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi

I have been having an ongoing debate over here with a Spanish 'colleague' who cant believe you can use a boat in the UK without a licence or any training.

As a training establishment I obviously have a vested interest in this but it would be good to get an unbiased opinion on this from you guys.

Is it probably only a matter of time before 'Big Brother' pokes his nose in and makes it compulsary anyway?

Could be a good debate! over to you.......

[/ QUOTE ]

To anyone who is advocating compulsory licensing, the first and most important question you need to answer is "what mischief that presently occurs is sought to be corrected or prevented by compulsory licensing?".

That question has to be answered with firm evidence to show: (i) that the asserted mischief is, in fact, occurring (as a reasonably direct result of the absence of compulsory licensing); and (ii) that the suggested regulatory change will have the effect intended (also taking account of possible adverse side effects).

If you can't prove the first, you're suggesting a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

If you can't prove the second, you're suggesting regulation for the sake of regulation.

The strong probability, in my view, is that any call for compulsory licensing is no more than a manifestation of muddled thinking - the "there ought to be a law against it" knee-jerk response of the intellectually challenged.

 

[Tugw]

[ QUOTE ]

The strong probability, in my view, is that any call for compulsory licensing is no more than a manifestation of muddled thinking - the "there ought to be a law against it" knee-jerk response of the intellectually challenged.

[/ QUOTE ]

or another chance for some chinless inbred wonder to take your hard earned.

 

[gjgm]

I dont see you need to answer those questions. The Gvmt proposes laws , and they get passed or not by our MPs. I m not convinced there needs to be a problem to solve before proposing a law.
Neither do I agree, as suggested in some other posts, that registration/licensing is a tax. It might be a cost, but its not a tax.
I m quite happy that there should be a minimum standard of competence (that doesnt automatically imply training, btw), and -if its a very nominal sum (ssr is £25, for example), that boats are registered.
All seems a bit puffed up, Little Britain, to me, this fuss about it all.
You can say, why should we? You can say, why dont we?
I dont mind much either way, but I m not against it.

 

[Argonautical]

GJGM

A well balance reply, having taken some Day Skipper training myself, and having seen the boathandling skills of some newbie's who have not, I would say that an elementary level of training is a darn good idea. You have a lot of boat of your own to look after, and a lot of other peoples boats to avoid.

Safety should not be skimped on in my opinion, and we were a little surprised that you can go and buy any boat you like and go out to sea in it with no previous experience or no training..............if you were daft enough! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I would imagine our RNLI and Coastguard 'Guardian Angels' would also love it if some took some training.
/forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Just my thoughts. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Jas.

 

[Andrew_Fanner]

>>>
and -if its a very nominal sum (ssr is £25, for example), that boats are registered.
>>>

It would not stay nominal, and we have seen that in far too many other instances. It becomes seen as a revenue stream rather than a fee for a service. Think bank charges or payments to park at your local hospital while visiting a pateint or being one.
As for reuglation to solve a non-existent problem the drink-boating debate covered that one rather well. MCA's inability/unwillingness to provide detailed statistics about accidents, even when faced with FOI requests, but claiming that their data was good enough to draw conclusions on safety is another case in point.

 

[gjgm]

Bank charges? Car parks ? You ve lost me.
I dont agree that it becomes a revenue source.
Yes, I think the drinking/boating one is an excellent example.
One argument being, there arent lots of accidents, so we dont need any governance.
Rubbish. Laws are also there to protect, surely. Saying you cant be rat-assed in charge of a boat seems damn sensible to me. Its up the the government to devise a meaningful law on that, but I dont see anything wrong with a law.
Whether they pass a lousy law isnt the same subject. Thats just a lousy lawmaking, but the concept is a good one.

 

[SnaxMuppet]

This is a duplicate thread from Scuttle but (thought we weren't supposed to do that?)... anyway...

See my reply here

 

[SnaxMuppet]

There is a thread I have just read that clearly indicates why there should be compulsory training...

In this thread the poster has a boat, wants to do what is right and sensible (otherwise he wouldn't have posted his question), clearly isn't just a yob (or else he wouldn't care what damage or harm he did by not doing it right). He just needs a bit of training.

Had it been a requirement for him to get the training BEFORE going out in his boat then he probably would have done it.

Fortunately, he has not come to any harm, he is getting good help and advice from the forum now and all is well but it may not have turned out that way and doesn't for many others.

Read the thread called "anchoring at sea" here

 

[DavidJ]

[ QUOTE ]
To anyone who is advocating compulsory licensing, the first and most important question you need to answer is "what mischief that presently occurs is sought to be corrected or prevented by compulsory licensing?".

[/ QUOTE ]

Intesting point. If there was any correlation between accidents and qualifications, the insurance companies wold be the first to pick up on it. As far as I am aware all insurers want is years experience.

 

[carlton]

Paul - the OP on the post you refer to stated that he'd done his PB1.

So maybe the question be 'How much training' rather than 'Should you have to qualify........'

 

[drewstwos]

HI all

I have been boating all my lon g life one way or another, and if I am required to get a licemce of some sort to take mu boat out. then that'a the day I give up boating.
Here on the Isle of Man all boats are registered, and it costs nothing when a boat changes ownership.
The possible killer for me is the loss of the derogation on RED. as an OAP I am on a fixed income, which is being steadily eaten away by inflation. Time will tell next year, but by adding a fee, *(Call it what you will) to get some piece of paper that in my own case does no good whatsoever is Nannyism gone completely OTT.

So I for one am totally against any form of government interference in our hobby

Happy boating to one and all....Enjoy it while you can !!!!

Cheers

Drew.

 

[db631018]

Hi Guys

Thanks for all the input, its clear as mud now!

Picking up on a few points its sounds like,

There is confusion here between licensing and training, hopefully from my previously stated biased viewpoint training provides a level of knowledge and ability to help someone be safe at sea and enjoy themselves more? Licensing is seen as something that is enforced by big brother as a means of generating revenue not as something that would be simply set out as a level of competence required by all. Which surely can not be a bad thing?

I see good support for pre training and also understand the point of view of someone banging the experience drum. I guess for me the old question of ‘what is the best way to learn, from experience or wisdom’ answers this one. If wisdom means using someone else’s experience to save you making the same mistake, that’s the one for me.

The Insurance situation is interesting, loads of good stuff on this, has anyone been offered discounts for being qualified? The no claims and thus experience gained avenue seems to be the thing here at the moment but I wonder how long for.

Maybe the insurance companies would be the first point of implementing skippers licensing control, they are in Spain.

Look forward to more interesting input on this, over to you…..

 

[powerskipper]

The standards of boating in UK is quite good, people want to look after there toys , but insurance company's are now in a lot of cases wanting some form of qualification before new boat owners can take there boat out without some on board who has boating qualification.
because people want to learn they are great students and will try hard , if compulsory they do not tend to try the same /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif