Should I buy a sailing boat?

[Zing]

You are going against the grain. The older you get, the more suitable a motor boat is. Sailing heeled over is physically demanding, which you can cope with less as you age. A motor boat gives you greater space and comfort per £1,000 of boat cost, which you generally want more of the older you are, so I am wondering if a motor boat is ‘t a better choice. A cat too, but I find them aesthetically very unappealing.

 

[V1701]

Nauticat, as already mentioned, might be the sort of thing to have a look at, other motorsailers are available depending on budget but something with an inside steering position and sails to also deploy when conditions are suitable. The conditions that some people sail in you just wouldn't want to be out in, as mentioned above already in all honesty it can be pretty uncomfortable. Be good if you could have a few trips out on a largeish motorsailer to get an idea. Motor sailer = motor boat with sail assist and could be just the thing for you...

 

[Greenheart]

I had a small, 'pure' sailing yacht for a couple of summers, after wanting one more than anything, for 40 years.

Now, I don't want another open-cockpit yacht. I could afford a wide variety, but I don't even want the yachts I can't afford...

...but a motor-sailer is a totally different, far more enticing proposition.

You sit out in the sun and sail if the weather's fine, but there's no need to raise sail (or steer outdoors) when the weather's foul.

It's the only way to get dependable boating enjoyment (and hence value) in a location with short unreliable summers.

As a flybridge owner, try steering up there through a few rainstorms, before deciding to buy an open-cockpit yacht.

 

[Concerto]

The talk of possibly getting a motor sailer makes me think your best choice could be a Moody 43. My late parents had one and it was very comfortable and a good looking yacht with an almost flat deck in front of the mast. Nice big cockpit, raised interior seating so you can see out in almost all directions, internal steering for inclement weather, furling mainsail and genoa, big engine and a bow thruster. They also fitted a big generator in the sail locker so you could be very independant of marinas.
High Quality Sailing Yachts - Moody
moody eclipse 43 - Google Search

 

[longjohnsilver]

Could I ask what your current Mobo is LJS?

A DeFever 48. An American trawler yacht, only one of its type in the UK.

 

[Greenheart]

The talk of possibly getting a motor sailer makes me think your best choice could be a Moody 43.

The Moody Eclipse is a handsome yacht - and your experience of one, counts for much.

But I've always suspected that its sleekness seriously compromises visibility from the inside helm - despite the helm being a substantial reason why this yacht (rather than so many others of a similar size) might be considered.

Particularly if coming from a trawler-style motorboat whose indoor helm gives that wonderful commanding and comfortable view. I was disappointed by the current Nauticat 50...with a much sleeker coachroof than it was decades earlier, the view from the inside wheel felt as if one was peering out of a hatch, just a few inches above the expanse of teak.

It is ironic that most people who own 'deck saloon' yachts which have been designed aerodynamically to sail well, tend not to use the inside helm, even if the weather's poor...

...whereas, traditional motorsailers made no bones about their users' unashamed intention to stay behind glass in foul weather, so their high wheelhouses gave excellent visibility...a lot like being back in a nice comfy trawler! Yet retaining the option to sail.

That's the much earlier Nauticat 44...much taller, with a great view from inside.

 

[doug748]

A DeFever 48. An American trawler yacht, only one of its type in the UK.

Lovely boat, not the sort of thing to let go lightly. What sort of cruising speed do you favour?

A small motor sailor would give you less speed, less comfort and a lumpen sailing performance. Not a great swap for me. ?

.

 

[Greenheart]

Not a great choice for most sailing people, it would seem from sales...

...but LJS is coming from a displacement motorboat, and I doubt he lusts after race-bred sailing designs or their demanding nature...

...(and there's no point explaining how undemanding one's own sailing yacht is...they're all a handful after any motorboat)...

...meanwhile, his presence in the UK, and his being accustomed to the immediate availability of Range Rover comfort during rotten UK weather, makes a motorsailer not so much an option in the margin, as an obvious first place to look.

Aboard an open-cockpit boat, you're obliged to stand outside to steer, and you're constantly thinking "how soon can we sail instead of motor?", because that's what she was primarily designed to do. With a motorsailer, you do only what you want at any time, without a sense that the designer really had a different use in mind.

 

[Greg2]

We are on our sixth (motor) boat and before buying the last three we have given serious consideration to getting a yacht or a motor sailer. I am fortunate inasmuch as SWMBO, whilst initially a very, very reluctant boater who by her own description used to get seasick getting out of the bath, has grown to love our pastime. What’s more, despite a sticky start in a strong breeze in a lugsail dinghy on Barton Broad, she has also embraced sailing. On our first charter in Greece she watched me at the helm and when I offered her a turn she turned out to be a bit of a natural. Result!

With this in mind our considerations about switching to sail have been serious and before buying our current trawler style boat we viewed and very seriously considered a Cabo Rico NE400 that was lying in Hinderloopen. Other serious considerations have been Jeanneau Deck Saloons of varying vintages.

After much research and endless hours of discussion we have always settled on a motor boat. The fact that we enjoy inland as well as coastal cruising has been a factor but our overriding conclusion has been that for us, in U.K. waters, sailing is for fun and a motorboat is for going places. We might reach a different conclusion if we were based in warmer climes.

Our 36 foot Hardy gives comfortable accommodation that is plenty for two and can accommodate a couple of occasional guests in a cabin at the other end of the boat with their own heads. It is seaworthy, with a flybridge for the outdoor experience and a proper lower helm with decent windows when conditions aren’t so good. We can cruise at displacement speed, on one engine if we want to, or push up to cruise at 12 knots on two engines if we need to. At her size getting a berth is rarely a problem and she is a handsome craft that attracts positive comments, usually from yacht owners. Importantly she will do everything on our boating bucket list, which ranges from a circumnavigation of the U.K with trips up all the main rivers as far as we can go (including the Shannon in Ireland), cruising the EU waterways (although that is now seriously curtailed following our departure from the EU) and even making it down through France to the Med. Which, if any, of these we are able to do remains to be seen but we have the flexibility to do them all.

To scratch the sailing itch we are giving serious consideration to getting a day-sailer or small yacht with a view to keeping it on a swing mooring to keep costs down. The trouble is that I like good looking old school boats (hence the Hardy) and the Cornish Crabbers and Norfolk Gypsy keep catching my eye, but boy are they expensive!
.

 

[xyachtdave]

The Moody Eclipse is a handsome yacht....

Pass the eye sanitizer please!

 

[longjohnsilver]

Lovely boat, not the sort of thing to let go lightly. What sort of cruising speed do you favour?

A small motor sailor would give you less speed, less comfort and a lumpen sailing performance. Not a great swap for me. ?

.

Thanks.
We usually cruise at about 6.5 - 7kts. And with stabilisers the motion is very comfortable in most sea conditions.

We did look at a few cats at SIBS a few years back. We loved the space but weren’t so impressed by the fit outs. And keeping it either on our mooring or in a marina would be problematical.

 

[Greenheart]

Pass the eye sanitizer please!

Dear me, I thought the Moody is rather fine, of its type...

...it isn't a style I wholeheartedly admire, for the reasons I gave above - it is neither a proper wheelhouse (and is unlikely to satisfy the requirement for a proper interior helm) nor does it have an elegant traditional flush deck or unashamed angular coachroof...

...in fact, possibly its best virtue is allowing people in the cabin, to see out while sitting down (take note, LJS, that most yachts have their windows near the ceiling...so, to see out, you must stand. Cabin fever beckons aboard pure sailing yachts)...

...yeah, you're right, Dave, I don't much like the Moody either.

If a proper motorsailer with a decent wheelhouse is a compromise, the Eclipse (and its many imitators) is a compromised compromise, without enough of a motorboat's advantage to have made the mix worthwhile.

Long John Silver's current boat lets him take most of his home-comforts to sea. That's the blissful, obvious point of not worrying about where the ruddy wind is coming from...

...sailing boats that retain motorboat-style comfort (somewhere to steer indoors with big windows, as comfortable as being at home) still allow downwind sailing and much more, but they completely defy the sailing man's plaguing obligation to attempt to sail against it.

I find that very persuasive.

 

[mrming]

It’s not quite as bad as that Doug, maybe 80% of the time...!

I’d say the reason some sailors are not enjoying their sailing is having a fixed destination in mind and not adjusting to suit the conditions.

Roughly translated this means if you can’t just drop your work/life commitments when the weather looks good and you can only go somewhere further afield on your two weeks off in August, you’re doomed unless you’re happy pottering about locally.

Bashing to windward for example is ok for a couple of hours to get somewhere nice or round a headland, any longer than that and life’s essentials become a pain in the backside, using the heads, navigating, making tea/lunch etc

I have braced myself with an arm round my keel stepped mast trying to cut the top off a packet of soup, spilling it all over the boat, before a few minutes later handing ‘lunch’ to the crew, I laugh about it now at the time I’d happily of scuttled the boat if a helicopter ride home was available.

There’s some satisfaction to arriving when it’s blowing, you’ve got your hero badge, salty experience, you can handle your boat in any weather etc...but you’ll be too knackered to go ashore for dinner or beer.

I’ve got my feet firmly in the ‘this is meant to be fun’ camp now, I’ll go out in pretty much any weather in local waters for a mess around for a few hours but a long passage when the weather is wrong...no thanks!

+1
Just did 18 days on the East coast with my other half and our 2 small kids by employing exactly this strategy.

 

[V1701]

Thanks.
We usually cruise at about 6.5 - 7kts. And with stabilisers the motion is very comfortable in most sea conditions.

We did look at a few cats at SIBS a few years back. We loved the space but weren’t so impressed by the fit outs. And keeping it either on our mooring or in a marina would be problematical.

That's exactly the sort of speed you'd be doing in your motorsailer (and I also think one with a proper wheelhouse rather than a deck saloon) and if the wind's coming from the wrong direction having some sail out would give a bit of stability, not a hugely different experience to that with your current boat I'd have thought...

 

[Sticky Fingers]

Thanks.
We usually cruise at about 6.5 - 7kts...

How about... somnething like this?
New Fisher 46 MKII Yacht For Sale | Boat Ref 31013 | Ancasta

Abcolutely classic motorsailer with a great pilothouse and lovely fitout. Very nice.

 

[Blueboatman]

J
Hang a sailing dinghy off the foredeck or transom if you want to get wet wind blown and wobble around on your ear for an hour or two
Otherwise , unless it’s a BiG Halberg R, anything is going to be slow cramped restricted at tide gates and windows of weather … I think
And then there’s beating to windward to get away , or to get home ..!
I would def try before you buy
Unless you want something completely bonkers different like a spiffy fast cat that floats on a heavy dew and can be parked on a nice beach ??

 

[ashtead]

How about... somnething like this?
New Fisher 46 MKII Yacht For Sale | Boat Ref 31013 | Ancasta

Abcolutely classic motorsailer with a great pilthouse and lovely fitout. Very nice.

You have found just the type of example I was thinking of in post #9 - if I was 10 years older and not in say a nimbus would be where I would prefer to be for trips to West Country certainly.

 

[Sticky Fingers]

You might look at Fisher 46 as an example of what you might get in an older vessel with sails but maybe a tad smaller ...

You have found just the type of example I was thinking of in post #9 - if I was 10 years older and not in say a nimbus would be where I would prefer to be for trips to West Country certainly.

Yes, came across it last night when I was looking for something else.... (as you do)

 

[shan]

Having spent most of my time on the mobo forum in the past 20 years or so, I now find that most of my interest is here in Scuttle your butt. I suppose running a pure displacement motor boat and finding myself being overtaken by most sailing yachts has left me questioning my loyalties. And passage planning, something of anathema to most motor boat owners, is a way of life to me. And my general dislike of Marina life, and my love of anchoring seems to place me firmly in the sailing yacht mentality.
But as I approach my seventh decade, with most, well, at least some, sailing types considering a move to a motor boat, and now not being as agile as I once was, should I seriously be considering a move to the rag and sticks brigade? Or should I accept my position with a foot in both camps, but a full member of neither?
At the end of the day I don’t suppose it really matters, just so long as I enjoy my time on (and below) the water. But I do seem to have a vast majority of sailing friends as opposed to mobo mates. Does the Cruising Association accept motor boaters? The RYA thread really started this train of thought. And a few g&t’s. After all, I do own a gin palace ?

You sound like you're pretty happy with your current setup, apart from the cleaning. Don't fix what ain't broken. I would suggest you get recommendations for someone to regularly clean and polish your boat. One bad experience is really only one bad experience.

 

[ashtead]

The advantage of a sailing boat is you will realise there is more to life than polishing though although I appreciate many get much please from the hobby but with a few sails there are hoards of other stuff to worry about. ?