Should I buy a catamaran????

[Swampyhotdog]

What do we think about cats?

I've been looking at boats in the states, and there seems to be a lot of cats at, what seems to me anyway, quite good prices.

I've never sailed one before, but it looks like a lot of boat for your money.

Are they suited to transatlantic crossings?

I know Ellen is doing very well on a multi, but are they any good for live-aboard/cruising?

Opinions would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Stu

 

[Shantyman]

I'm sure many of them are capable of an atlantic crossing (Fred Rebell and also the Dyes made formidable passages in dinghies!) but I would think a bit of caution would be advisable before buying a "Cheap" cat and setting off accross the pond.

Why are they cheap? because people don't want them? . . . .
Because they are unsound?

I have crossed the pond but I don't think I would ever feel at ease crossing an ocean in anything where you have to have an escape hatch in the bottom in case it turns over!

Meringues are for eating !

 

[colvic987]

and how much will it cost you, once you have bought your catamaran, to import it into the eu, and pay the vat, most probably more hassle then necessary, when you could get one vat paid and already in the eu...
i am sure that the cheap cat would become a very expensive one which you could not sell on cause no one would want to take the risk with an unknown model of boat in the eu... you see plenty of unwanted boats in the boatyards, would advise you to look around in the uk first, a cheap boat is not neccessarily a bargain....

p.s. But you should know this in your occupation...

 

[Birdseye]

I have cruised a cat and lived aboard - at least for 3 months at a time. I am now changing to a mono because the way we use the boat is changing too.

If I were going liveaboard, I wouldnt hesitate to buy a cat but I would make sure it was a well made crusing cat (ie something like a Prout) rather than a French charter cat. In favour of cats are:

space
ride both at sea and at anchor
light and airy
safety / security (try doing 24 hrs at 25 degree heel and you will understand)
easy to single hand at sea
can be a bit faster overall (like 15%) than a mono

against cats
usually not much fun to sail
singlehanding in harbour
marina charges / space
load it up and sail like a mono
lot of boat to keep clean / maintained

We are now days sailing / weekending and for that I wouldnt have a cat (though thats still where my heart is), principally because we are marina hopping and also because of the fun element.

In the UK we never paid a marina premium, abroad we often did. But this situation is worsening as boat numbers increase faster than moorings.

Never once had reason to worry about capsize. Indeed felt more confident because of unsinkability

 

[Talbot]

Suggest you talk to Stingo (on scutt butt) he was a dedicated AWB man who set off on long term cruise, and before very long was trying to exchange his boat for a cat.

I am naturally in favour of cats having owned mine for the last 17 years, however I originally only bought one cause SWMBO and daughter did not like being heeled over. These days I would not return to a monohull. The concerns about capsizing cats are driven by two things - one early cat design by a dinghy racer that was fast but totally unsuited for bad weather, and racing boats being driven beyond their capabilities. AFAIK, there has never been a capsize by a cat that uses long aspect ratio keels rather than dagger boards. That is not to say that cats cant turn up side down, because that is absurd, but this happens normally in a pitchpole when the boat is being driven far to quickly in very big seas. The same thing can happen to a monohull.
IMHO you should consider a holiday in a charter cat to see whether you like the style. Some people like the ability to see all around them, and live upright in a bright well aired large space. Others want to stay down in a damp poorly vented confined cave. The choice is yours.
If you do decide that a cat is for you, there are reasonably proced cats available in UK so you dont have to worry about import and CE. Design choice is really driven by funds and the style of boating that you wish to do.

 

[snowleopard]

[ QUOTE ]
usually not much fun to sail

[/ QUOTE ]

some are, some aren't. personally i find reaching at 12 knots and surfing at 17 gets the juices flowing.

as to 'are they suitable for crossing oceans?' again some are, some aren't. the stability of a cat increases by the 4th power of the length (approx) so the bigger the better. how small you go before you consider the risks too high is a matter of personal choice. some draw the line at 25 ft or less. i'm a bit more nervous and say 35 (mine is 40).

 

[William_H]

I started my sailing in cats up to a small cruising cat. I then was forced by circumstances to go to a trailer sailer. With the cat I had trouble with mast strength. In a blow the boat was very stable but the rigging was not up to it. Huge loads. The thing with a cat is that you have to know and be conservative about speed and wind pressure. I love the way the monohull tells you very clearly by falling over when there is too much wind ie time to reduce sail. The stability is far less than the structural strength. This is great in gusty variable conditions that I often sail in. I love also the way the monohull will point better into the wind and seems to love going to windward where the cat was real pain. I am back now to the original conditions I had the cat but prefer the little mono. will

 

[boatmike]

Endorse opinions expressed by Talbot Birdseye and Snowlopard, in particular note SNs remarks about size. Depends entirely on what you want the boat for. There is no such thing as a perfect boat (just like women in that respect, thats why we call them "she" )
There are good and bad cats just as there are good and bad monohulls. More to the point there are safe seaworthy cats that are easy to sail and there are very light high performance cats that are the opposite just like monohulls. Anything over about 35 ft is likely to be much safer and sail better than under but there are even exceptions to this rule so take it gently and do some sea time on a cat by chartering or whatever first..... Then choose. Beware of cheap boats however many hulls they have. There are usually reasons.

 

[oldsaltoz]

G'day Stuart,

You being a marine engineer should be an advantage when it comes to selecting a craft be it mono or multi.

Cost is the main deterrent to purchasing a cat but this is more than compensated for with the extra space and comfort.

An important aspect not noted in the postings so far is that cats draw much less water so access to areas that keel boats can not enter is always available; as is setting down when the tide goes out in a protected spot. Needless to say this also reduces the risk of fouling submerged obstacles of all kinds.

Cats do not have a tonne of lead or other ballast to hold them up or lug around that is spends it's whole life trying to get the ocean floor, and sometimes succeeds.

A few essential things I always look for in cats is; a good clearance between the hulls to avoid slamming when going to windward in large seas, also good access to the water at the stern for boarding. Enough power to motor at a decent rate of knots when required, minimum cruising speed 8 knots.

Nice to have's include a covered cockpit that keeps the sun (or rain) off you and your equipment, good refrigeration and lots of it, at least 2, one for food and drink another for bait and fish, as well as cold boxes for short term storage with ice. A separate navigation area, a second shower on deck.

I started sailing many years ago and was a mono purist for most of it, but after doing a few delivery trips and then cruising for several weeks and miles at a time I have been converted, I still love sailing a mono and enjoy the more responsive action to changes in pressure on the rig and reaction to waves, not so pronounced on a cat, but give me a cat any day for pure comfort, ease of sailing and speed.

Avagoodweekend.........

 

[RupertW]

I would if I was off voyaging. The only reason I don't have one now is that they're expensive to park, and find spaces for in England.

I have helped deliver a Lagoon across the Atlantic and up to Florida and have chartered other cats to compare. We had a pretty rough late winter crossing (lightning on 30 of the 37 nights of the entire trip) and I thought at the time that I'd rather be in a cold Force 9 in a cat than a monohull anytime. The crew was well looked after by the boat, nothing broke and steering from a height of 12 feet above the water made wave-spotting and steering around much easier (and made the waves look lower too!)

Sailing at 10-15 knots in moderate weather, without rolling at all, was also a bonus, as was the huge living space inside and flat walking space outside.

But, either you like the motion of cats (it feels the boat is pulling itself along a rutted track by its elbows) and you like the way cats look and feel, or you don't, and many people only feel they're really sailing when they're on a monohull.

Lots of other advantges - many of them covered in previous threads

 

[Rohorn]

Hi..... if it's capsizing you are concerned about, I'd recommend having a cat rigged with the mast well aft, like the Prouts and the early Deans (like mine) so you have a tiny mainsail which you don't have to reef if caught by a prolonged gust (I've had mine full up in 41 knots of wind, no qualms) and a good furling jib, so you don't have to move from the cockpit.
I've sailed some medium sized French cats and the combination of streamlined rounded coach-roofs and huge slab reefed mainsails asks for trouble, unless you have plenty of experienced crew aboard. Several of the smaller Fontaine-Pajots and similar clones have capsized in sudden heavy weather conditions. The pointy hulls with trampolines are also prone to pitch poling in extremis. That's what caused all the fuss about under side escape hatches in the first place. We see quite a few chartering in the Aegean, and almost NEVER sailing.
I don't like the minimalist three-stayed masts prevalent on most French cats either. Reliable they may be, and less drag, but one came adrift (badly fitted) on an Edel once and a Swedish girl was badly hurt when the mast came down. I have no less than 8 stays on my Dean and fear nothing in that regard.
One French cat I was near to buying was a Catana 39 ft, with dagger boards and a blistering up-wind performance. That thing would point better than a racing 50ft monohull in St Tropez bay. But the curvacious trendy styling and trampoline forward made it very difficult for a handicapped member of the family to move around with any confidence. And sooner or later one was going to get caught by a rapidly rising wind with the boards down and the huge main fully up .....
Most medium Brit cats we looked at were narrow beamed to go through the canals, and didn't look quite right for rugged sailing, which occurs whether one likes it or not. The Dean will never go through the canals, but with 17ft 6 beam she sits well in the fluky Aegean.
Just some thoughts...hope they're relevant.
Cheers....R

 

[webcraft]

Nuh!

- Nick

 

[snowleopard]

<slamming when going to windward in large seas>

interesting- i find that slamming under the bridgedeck only occurs with the seas on the beam, when the boat straddles a wave and the crest hits the underside. i've only done serious distances in my own boat so don't know how others compare. my problem when going upwind is hobby-horsing, not slamming.

 

[ShipsWoofy]

nah! they're rubbish!