bigmart
New member
Re: RYA comments
Only time will tell on that one.
Martin
Only time will tell on that one.
Martin
Shipping Minister Keith Hill is a Moron
- Thread starter steve_cronin
- Start date
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
Hyde Park cycling
Actualy Stingo, the accident happened on a cycle path (south of the Serpentine), the blader was held to be at fault, the cycle path remains where it was and is in use. I should know, as the time the incident happened I was using that path twice a day, five days a week. Since then, more cycle paths have been opened in the park, and bladers have been restricted heavily by the simple expedient of putting a fairly coarse surface on areas where they are not wanted.
Twister Ken, member of the Cruising Association, the Cyclists Touring Club and the London Cycle Campaign. And a supporter of Sustrans (boy am I ever a goody-goody!)
Actualy Stingo, the accident happened on a cycle path (south of the Serpentine), the blader was held to be at fault, the cycle path remains where it was and is in use. I should know, as the time the incident happened I was using that path twice a day, five days a week. Since then, more cycle paths have been opened in the park, and bladers have been restricted heavily by the simple expedient of putting a fairly coarse surface on areas where they are not wanted.
Twister Ken, member of the Cruising Association, the Cyclists Touring Club and the London Cycle Campaign. And a supporter of Sustrans (boy am I ever a goody-goody!)
FlyingSpud
Member
It seems the Merchant Shipping Act 1995 made it an offence, to endanger a ship or other ships by reason of being under the influence of drink or drugs, but having passed that Act, but they forgot to put in any way of finding out if someone was drunk (parliamentary draughtsmen, don’t you just love ‘em), so for commercial ships this is really just dealing with a cock up in a previous Act i.e. it was broke.
I think its effect on pleasure boats is still to be seen. It makes sense to me that a pleasure boat capable of say 20 knots should fall within these provisions, clearly not an Avon with a 2hp, as for the normal sailing craft doing 5-8knts, well I think not but I can see it is arguable
I think its effect on pleasure boats is still to be seen. It makes sense to me that a pleasure boat capable of say 20 knots should fall within these provisions, clearly not an Avon with a 2hp, as for the normal sailing craft doing 5-8knts, well I think not but I can see it is arguable
webcraft
Well-known member
When the breathalyser was introduced the countryside began to die.
Sorry, but it's true. (Remember from a previous post in this thread, 90% of us enjoy alcohol).
Long time ago in rural Britain, on a Saturday or Sunday morning you might see the odd car in a field. Usually no victims.
Now it never happens because anyone who climbs into a car after three pints is obviously committing premeditated murder, even if they are a competent driver and only have three miles to go on a deserted rural road. Now we all stay in and watch TV instead of visiting each other. Well, maybe the propoganda is true and what we lost was worth what we gained. I'm not arguing here for a change in the drink driving laws, just interpreting history from the countryside's point of view.
Now they want to do it with sailing. How many people exactly have been killed on a private sailing vessel by a drunken skipper? Come on, exactly how many?
And is there anyone out there who will actually admit to enjoying a beer occasionally on the helm? Or is that totally non-PC?
This is so unnecessary it beggars belief. This is the regulation that makes me want to ignore all the others.
<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue>
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bluemoment.com>
</A>
Sorry, but it's true. (Remember from a previous post in this thread, 90% of us enjoy alcohol).
Long time ago in rural Britain, on a Saturday or Sunday morning you might see the odd car in a field. Usually no victims.
Now it never happens because anyone who climbs into a car after three pints is obviously committing premeditated murder, even if they are a competent driver and only have three miles to go on a deserted rural road. Now we all stay in and watch TV instead of visiting each other. Well, maybe the propoganda is true and what we lost was worth what we gained. I'm not arguing here for a change in the drink driving laws, just interpreting history from the countryside's point of view.
Now they want to do it with sailing. How many people exactly have been killed on a private sailing vessel by a drunken skipper? Come on, exactly how many?
And is there anyone out there who will actually admit to enjoying a beer occasionally on the helm? Or is that totally non-PC?
This is so unnecessary it beggars belief. This is the regulation that makes me want to ignore all the others.
<font color=blue>Nick</font color=blue>
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.bluemoment.com>
FlyingSpud
Member
One of the points the ministry make is that they have no idea about the connection between drunkenness and accidents. In effect they seem to say it is a chicken and egg situation, unless it is illegal, no one tests, so they can only find out it is a problem by making it illegal.
I must admit it seemed to me that some sort of study could be done, but I think, at the end of the day, the real basis of the decision is that unless they apply the meat of the IMO recommendations matters would become a farce.
IMHO Not sure I agree about the countryside. I live in a small village and it seems OK here. As to the effect on road deaths, they fell 71% from 1979 to 1999, but since then have been on the increase again, largely in the age group 19-29 where they seem to feel they are superhuman and can control a car while drunk.
I must admit it seemed to me that some sort of study could be done, but I think, at the end of the day, the real basis of the decision is that unless they apply the meat of the IMO recommendations matters would become a farce.
IMHO Not sure I agree about the countryside. I live in a small village and it seems OK here. As to the effect on road deaths, they fell 71% from 1979 to 1999, but since then have been on the increase again, largely in the age group 19-29 where they seem to feel they are superhuman and can control a car while drunk.
oldgit
Well-known member
Ahem Top cat....
The master and/or crew of the motor barge that HIT the pleasure boat, I seem to recall, deemed mostly to be at fault in this matter.Must put this very carefully because not sure what legal position is......collision occured due to poor lookout kept by the " very relaxed" crew.I welcome correction on this matter if I am in error on the facts.
Oooh look its still not dark and its nearly 5pm
The master and/or crew of the motor barge that HIT the pleasure boat, I seem to recall, deemed mostly to be at fault in this matter.Must put this very carefully because not sure what legal position is......collision occured due to poor lookout kept by the " very relaxed" crew.I welcome correction on this matter if I am in error on the facts.
Oooh look its still not dark and its nearly 5pm
steve_cronin
N/A
Well if our \"partners\" in Europe
are anything to go by we all know if many instances of laws being adopted and then totally ignored. Our legal executive onthe other hand adopts a feeding frenzy on ANY new legislation and applies it with vigour.
Steve Cronin
are anything to go by we all know if many instances of laws being adopted and then totally ignored. Our legal executive onthe other hand adopts a feeding frenzy on ANY new legislation and applies it with vigour.
Steve Cronin
steve_cronin
N/A
That\'s exactly what it is....nm
..
..
steve_cronin
N/A
Unfortunately....
Your "...well I think not but I can see it as argueable" will be taken by the zealates as a "Yes I totally agree. Bring it forth without delay"
Steve cronin
Your "...well I think not but I can see it as argueable" will be taken by the zealates as a "Yes I totally agree. Bring it forth without delay"
Steve cronin
steve_cronin
N/A
Not wishing to trivialise...
.. but just referring to your last paragraph i have often wondered how all the characters in the Archers get to and from the Bull considering, if you've studied a map of the ficticious village of Ambridge, how far outflung their respective residences are.
i hope this doesn't divert the arguement to one about soaps. if it does it just proves that this government has us all by the S&Cs if we were more concerned with trivia than to oppose this abhorrent violation of the tranquil scene of our coastal waters.
Steve Cronin
.. but just referring to your last paragraph i have often wondered how all the characters in the Archers get to and from the Bull considering, if you've studied a map of the ficticious village of Ambridge, how far outflung their respective residences are.
i hope this doesn't divert the arguement to one about soaps. if it does it just proves that this government has us all by the S&Cs if we were more concerned with trivia than to oppose this abhorrent violation of the tranquil scene of our coastal waters.
Steve Cronin
steve_cronin
N/A
read it my friend....
and you will see Hill disclosing that "...the police will be given additional resources to administer the new provisions"
(and that don't mean putting mooring bollards and all round fendering on their range Rovers!)
Steve Cronin
and you will see Hill disclosing that "...the police will be given additional resources to administer the new provisions"
(and that don't mean putting mooring bollards and all round fendering on their range Rovers!)
Steve Cronin
steve_cronin
N/A
Royal Srn Yacht Club\'s Beaulieu River BBQs
will also be a thing of the past.
This morning's latest revelation is that they are also going to ban fireworks at ANY time (except for the festival of religious hatred in November).
Seems that if Her Majesty lives to a Diamond Jubillee there won't be any fireworks to celebrate. Another faceless moron appeared on News24 this morning to roll out THIS latest curtailing of normal activity. Not even organised professional displays are going to be permitted apparently.
What is it with this government?
Steve Cronin
will also be a thing of the past.
This morning's latest revelation is that they are also going to ban fireworks at ANY time (except for the festival of religious hatred in November).
Seems that if Her Majesty lives to a Diamond Jubillee there won't be any fireworks to celebrate. Another faceless moron appeared on News24 this morning to roll out THIS latest curtailing of normal activity. Not even organised professional displays are going to be permitted apparently.
What is it with this government?
Steve Cronin
FlyingSpud
Member
Re: Ahem Top cat....
Interesting, and an argument against the new bill I suppose.
According to the Report in Guardian Unlimited, the Clarke Report on the Marchioness/Bowbelle said: "The basic cause of the collision is clear. It was poor lookout on both vessels. Neither vessel saw the other in time to take action to avoid the collision."
The report stated the accident was caused at least in part by the fault of the skippers to set up and operate a proper system of lookout on their vessels.
The report said the Bowbelle skipper should himself have kept a proper lookout and that, if he had, he would have seen the Marchioness. It said that on the afternoon before the 1.45am collision, he "drank more than he should".
This is the interesting bit, although it was reckoned that the Bowbelle skipper would have had no alcohol in his bloodstream at the time of the collision, the report added: "We cannot stress too strongly how much he deprecate his conduct in drinking so much before returning to the vessel as master."
So, it would seem the new law would not have convicted the Bowbelle’s skipper as that only relates drunkenness to blood alcohol limits, presumably the RYA have picked up on this?
Interesting, and an argument against the new bill I suppose.
According to the Report in Guardian Unlimited, the Clarke Report on the Marchioness/Bowbelle said: "The basic cause of the collision is clear. It was poor lookout on both vessels. Neither vessel saw the other in time to take action to avoid the collision."
The report stated the accident was caused at least in part by the fault of the skippers to set up and operate a proper system of lookout on their vessels.
The report said the Bowbelle skipper should himself have kept a proper lookout and that, if he had, he would have seen the Marchioness. It said that on the afternoon before the 1.45am collision, he "drank more than he should".
This is the interesting bit, although it was reckoned that the Bowbelle skipper would have had no alcohol in his bloodstream at the time of the collision, the report added: "We cannot stress too strongly how much he deprecate his conduct in drinking so much before returning to the vessel as master."
So, it would seem the new law would not have convicted the Bowbelle’s skipper as that only relates drunkenness to blood alcohol limits, presumably the RYA have picked up on this?
FlyingSpud
Member
Re: Not wishing to trivialise...
I don't think saying that they have no case at all will help a bit, you have to accept there is an argument, and just to ignore it means you have lost before you start.
On the Archers point, by Tardis, obviously.
Haven’t you noticed how some of the characters ‘regenerate’ from time to time - must be Time Lords as they are the only others I know of with this ability
I don't think saying that they have no case at all will help a bit, you have to accept there is an argument, and just to ignore it means you have lost before you start.
On the Archers point, by Tardis, obviously.
Haven’t you noticed how some of the characters ‘regenerate’ from time to time - must be Time Lords as they are the only others I know of with this ability
Martin_Billings
New member
Rules and regulations
This whole argument is about the degree of self regulation we are allowed. I do not think that many people would seriously think it sensible to operate machinery under impairment from whatever source. What is controversial is the extent to which we are to be trusted to make the judgment ourselves.
This whole argument is about the degree of self regulation we are allowed. I do not think that many people would seriously think it sensible to operate machinery under impairment from whatever source. What is controversial is the extent to which we are to be trusted to make the judgment ourselves.
broadnorfolk
New member
>some personal craft require a high degree of skill in operation
I'm guessing that would mean jetskis and RIBS - and I think these would be the main targets of any legislation. The problem, though, would be defining these types of craft to the exclusion of others.
I'm guessing that would mean jetskis and RIBS - and I think these would be the main targets of any legislation. The problem, though, would be defining these types of craft to the exclusion of others.
Bergman
New member
Re: read it my friend....
I suspect you have made an error. Seriously overestimated this mans intelligence.
What a futile waste of time and money.
Typical example of politico think - must do something - this is something - therefore must do this.
The naivity of people who think police won't bother to enforce is incredible. The forces will be racing to see who can bring the first conviction. An organisation that will use £2000+ per hour helicopters to try (and fail) to catch thieves who steal £1000 car will do anything.
Its so pointless. If you get drunk and accidentally kill someone its manslaughter. If this was enforced more rigorously then the police might make some impression.
Just like dangerous dogs act. Came about cos people got attacked mainly by dogs used for illegal fighting. If police had made some effort to address this then the problem would not have occured, but no, thats too hard. So new act to allow them to have innocent dogs destroyed, often at enormous cost in legal fees and illegal fighting continues.
Same argument with handguns.
Policing - the extension of spin by other means.
God but I'm angry!
Sorry for rant but sometimes I could spit.
I suspect you have made an error. Seriously overestimated this mans intelligence.
What a futile waste of time and money.
Typical example of politico think - must do something - this is something - therefore must do this.
The naivity of people who think police won't bother to enforce is incredible. The forces will be racing to see who can bring the first conviction. An organisation that will use £2000+ per hour helicopters to try (and fail) to catch thieves who steal £1000 car will do anything.
Its so pointless. If you get drunk and accidentally kill someone its manslaughter. If this was enforced more rigorously then the police might make some impression.
Just like dangerous dogs act. Came about cos people got attacked mainly by dogs used for illegal fighting. If police had made some effort to address this then the problem would not have occured, but no, thats too hard. So new act to allow them to have innocent dogs destroyed, often at enormous cost in legal fees and illegal fighting continues.
Same argument with handguns.
Policing - the extension of spin by other means.
God but I'm angry!
Sorry for rant but sometimes I could spit.
Stingo
Well-known member
Re: Hyde Park cycling
Then why am I always being given the shaky finger by the Bill when I cycle through Hyde Park and being told that "there is no cycling allowed in Hyde Park sir"?
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.stingo.co.uk>http://www.stingo.co.uk</A> - now showing at a computer near you
Then why am I always being given the shaky finger by the Bill when I cycle through Hyde Park and being told that "there is no cycling allowed in Hyde Park sir"?
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.stingo.co.uk>http://www.stingo.co.uk</A> - now showing at a computer near you
gliptus
New member
As a serving RN watchkeeping officer, I am slightly concerned by Steve's implication about the consumption of alcohol in HM Ships at sea. I simply never drink while at sea, and I do not know any other watchkeeping officers who do. Occasionally the engineers have a glass of wine with dinner. I can assure Steve that the RN wardroom as an instiution is alive and well, full of relaxed cameraderie. When alongside we know how to drink and enjoy ourselves, when at sea we apply the highest professional standards.
oldgit
Well-known member
Steve is obviously using that fact known only by the english, if you shout loudly enough you will always win arguments with officaldom/foreigners.
Oooh look its still not dark and its nearly 5pm
Oooh look its still not dark and its nearly 5pm
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