Shipping forecadt

[franksingleton]

It has been announced that BBC LW will cease next March.

Details for the shipping forecast are at BBC Radio 4 begins information campaign to transition listeners from Long Wave

i missed this announcement and am surprised that it has not been publicised more widely

 

[Black Sheep]

I'm confused by that link. Is it telling us that they will stop all LW broadcasts next March, or that LW broadcasts will be no different from the VHF broadcasts?

Either way, it seems we'll lose two shipping forecasts a day on R4.

 

[Praxinoscope]

I wonder how much longer the BBC will continue with the shipping forecasts, I certainly still use them, but most of the sailors I know seem to use apps on their mobile phones rather than listen to the broadcast forecast, it may get to the point where the Met Office and BBC believe that the 'audience' is too small for them to continue.

 

[Black Sheep]

I think there's two or three issues being discussed here....
1) Broadcasting R4 on long Wave
2) Broadcasting the shipping forecast on R4
3) and the overlap - broadcasting the shipping forecast on R4 long wave

I *think* the link that Frank posted is about (3) - broadcasting the shipping forecast on R4 Long Wave. At the moment R4 LW has different content from R4 VHF (cricket, daily service, parliament, shipping) - my reading is that they're changing R4 back into a single service, with the same content on all frequencies. My understanding is that the 1200 and 1754 broadcasts (currently LW only) will disappear next year when they merge the LW and VFH outputs. This is in preparation for when they finally pull the plug on LW.

Pulling the plug on R4 LW (that's (1) in my list above) is something that concerns me, as it's a reliable broadcast channel when sailing out of range of VHF transmissions. Something to listen to, keep me sane, keep me aware of the news, and yes, the shipping forecast. We all know it will happen, but I'm not aware of a date yet. I don't *think* a date was implied in Frank's link, but I may be misreading it.

The future of the shipping forecast on R4 is another thing - (2) above. The maritime safety argument is slowly declining, though still there (especially when you factor in people listening to the 0520 inshore forecast, via BBC Sounds, later in the morning). But that's probably a small part of the listenership. There is also a strong body of listeners for whom the shipping forecast is a meditative litany and an important part of the fabric of their day. I don't know which way they will jump.

It's all a bit messy, isn't it?

 

[johnalison]

It looks as if the beneficiaries of Ronald Binge will be losing their royalties if Sailing By is no longer broadcast.

 

[Boathook]

It looks as if the beneficiaries of Ronald Binge will be losing their royalties if Sailing By is no longer broadcast.

I believe that the widow agreed to no royalties quite a few years ago when the BBC was going to stop using sailing by because of the cost. Quite a few upset people back then.

I use apps for looking at the weather plus use the met office for the inshore forecasts. As I fitted navtex years ago I also have that running for when out of Internet range one problem with navtex is the delay between met office issuing forecast and it appearing on navtex.

 

[dunedin]

I wonder if the current USERS of the shipping forecast on R4 LW reaches even double figures per broadcast?
(As opposed to people listening out of habit and/or nostalgia, mostly safely on shore.)
Never heard it personally so no loss.

 

[MontyMariner]

It looks as if the beneficiaries of Ronald Binge will be losing their royalties if Sailing By is no longer broadcast.

It's still played on FM and DAB forecasts.
I once heard Sailing By with lyrics, but have never since been able to find the recording.

 

[franksingleton]

The BBC page says, rather ambiguously that-
“The BBC is working with key organisations so that specific audiences will be notified how they can switch to other BBC platforms to hear programmes between now and the end of Radio 4 LW separate scheduling in March 2024”.

I think that means that LW will cease.The main reason, I believe, is that the technology - like NAVTEX, RTTY generally, and RadioFax is long outdated and the equipment is becoming/has become difficult to maintain. There is no great point in arguing how true that is but USCG has threatened to cease all such services.

In practical terms, most of us can and do get the Shipping and Inshore waters forecasts online when ashore and when a few miles out to sea. You can save texts easily and read at leisure. The downside is that you do not know when a warning has been issued.

Out at sea, there are two options. Use NAVTEX while it is still there or have an IridiumGo! or similar with an appropriate contract. For most of us, given the quality of marine forecasts nowadays, loss of BBC broadcasts is no big deal. For those habitually making passages out of VHF range, satellite systems with internet connectivity is probably the best solution. IMO, I believe, is working on a NAVTEX replacement. However, by the time it comes, satellite systems and services will have become affordable. As with NAVTEX, IMO will be well behind the curve.

 

[franksingleton]

The BBC page does not mention the inshore forecasts. I have just emailed the Met Office to ask if they have details of times of broadcasts.

 

[RunAgroundHard]

I think it was Jumble Duck that knew about the LW transmitter valve status. IIRC there were no spares and when it went ‘pop’ that was it. Maybe the transmitter operators are seeing signs of deterioration hence a planned cessation of the service before it becomes inevitable.

An article from 2011

Radio 4's long wave goodbye | BBC | The Guardian

At least we have mono DAB, when it doesn’t drop the signal.

I rarely listen to the shipping forecast. When I do, it is just because R4 is on and I happen to be listening.

 

[franksingleton]

I think it was Jumble Duck that knew about the LW transmitter valve status. IIRC there were no spares and when it went ‘pop’ that was it. Maybe the transmitter operators are seeing signs of deterioration hence a planned cessation of the service before it becomes inevitable.

An article from 2011

Radio 4's long wave goodbye | BBC | The Guardian

At least we have mono DAB, when it doesn’t drop the signal.

I rarely listen to the shipping forecast. When I do, it is just because R4 is on and I happen to be listening.

Yes, that is my understanding as well. Marine VHF dates back to the mid 1960s. What is its life?

 

[st599]

Yes, that is my understanding as well. Marine VHF dates back to the mid 1960s. What is its life?

Until someone convinces the ITU it has better use for the frequencies and it makes a co-primary allocation. If you go to Germany, Holland or Belgium some channels have been removed for F3E comms (FM voice telephony) and replaced by VDES.

World Radio Conference is later this year - watch this space.

 

[RivalRedwing]

a slight tangent but worth a view / listen

The Shipping Forecast with Jim Maxwell | The voice of summer on fire in Edgbaston! Listen live here: ab.co/3ZukF1l Follow our live blog here: https://bit.ly/43R94fy | By ABC Sport | Facebook

 

[LittleSister]

The BBC page says, rather ambiguously that-
“The BBC is working with key organisations so that specific audiences will be notified how they can switch to other BBC platforms to hear programmes between now and the end of Radio 4 LW separate scheduling in March 2024”.

I think that means that LW will cease. . .

I don't think it does mean that R4 LW will cease in March 2024.

As I read it, different schedules for R4 LW and R4 FM will cease then, and they will then just broadcast the same programmes simultaneously on LW & FM. I think Black Sheep's explanation in post #4 is most consistent with the BBC words you've quoted.

I have little doubt that the March 2024 change is a deliberate step towards subsequently ending R4 LW altogether (and a canny one at that, meaning each incremental step is less objectionable than the combined effect of them all).

 

[iantomlinson]

I think there's two or three issues being discussed here....
1) Broadcasting R4 on long Wave
2) Broadcasting the shipping forecast on R4
3) and the overlap - broadcasting the shipping forecast on R4 long wave

I *think* the link that Frank posted is about (3) - broadcasting the shipping forecast on R4 Long Wave. At the moment R4 LW has different content from R4 VHF (cricket, daily service, parliament, shipping) - my reading is that they're changing R4 back into a single service, with the same content on all frequencies. My understanding is that the 1200 and 1754 broadcasts (currently LW only) will disappear next year when they merge the LW and VFH outputs. This is in preparation for when they finally pull the plug on LW.

Pulling the plug on R4 LW (that's (1) in my list above) is something that concerns me, as it's a reliable broadcast channel when sailing out of range of VHF transmissions. Something to listen to, keep me sane, keep me aware of the news, and yes, the shipping forecast. We all know it will happen, but I'm not aware of a date yet. I don't *think* a date was implied in Frank's link, but I may be misreading it.

The future of the shipping forecast on R4 is another thing - (2) above. The maritime safety argument is slowly declining, though still there (especially when you factor in people listening to the 0520 inshore forecast, via BBC Sounds, later in the morning). But that's probably a small part of the listenership. There is also a strong body of listeners for whom the shipping forecast is a meditative litany and an important part of the fabric of their day. I don't know which way they will jump.

It's all a bit messy, isn't it?t

We listened to the forecast on r4 a week ago at the new 0033. Think 0048. All good with sailing by first(dave jasmin eat your heart out) Then I tried again at just before 6pm that same day and they didn't do it. Google says they will. Are they doing it when they feel like orcas I missing something?

 

[Goldie]

I’m surprised that no one (and my apologies if I’ve missed it) has mentioned the chief advantage of R4 LW - its range. I’ve received R4 in the Straits of Gibraltar (at night) and West of Ireland.

It’s all very well to talk about DAB, FM and Apps, but they’re only fine for coastal sailing (and there are areas where even those are difficult to receive). When the technology becomes unsupportable then go it must, but why remove a resource whilst it’s still viable? Thank goodness for Navtex - for the moment…

 

[st599]

When the technology becomes unsupportable then go it must, but why remove a resource whilst it’s still viable?

A massive hike in the cost of electricity. All broadcasters are cost saving at the moment.

 

[franksingleton]

I’m surprised that no one (and my apologies if I’ve missed it) has mentioned the chief advantage of R4 LW - its range. I’ve received R4 in the Straits of Gibraltar (at night) and West of Ireland.

It’s all very well to talk about DAB, FM and Apps, but they’re only fine for coastal sailing (and there are areas where even those are difficult to receive). When the technology becomes unsupportable then go it must, but why remove a resource whilst it’s still viable? Thank goodness for Navtex - for the moment…

Agreed. However, the problems with all these terrestrial radio systems are two-fold. The technologies are long outdated and unsupportable. Secondly, is their reliability. Just think of the NAVTEX sky wave issue. It cannot be resolved. The future must be satellite. I do not know what IMO/WMO are planning for son of NAVTEX. Anything that is not internet based is likely to fail. Increasing sales volumes will bring the costs of satcom down. Sailors will move in that direction.

 

[bikedaft]

tbh i wondered if they have reduced the strength already? could not hear any R4 on LW at Rockall.