JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
That's got to be a worry in harbour, surely?
Setting up a tow line?
- Thread starter Uricanejack
- Start date
That's got to be a worry in harbour, surely?
fisherman
Well-Known Member
Of course with a FV I have all the power and strongpoints needed. A tyre in the middle may not be the answer, it won't stretch to make a difference, will keep the fore part taut as it drops in the water, allowing the after part to slacken, then snatch, especially if you are towing something big. Chain or a deadweight works. And, when you get to putting him alongside, make fast to his quarter and 'push' him into place, with your rudder well behind his stern. If he has only lost his steering, consider letting him tow you.....
And insurance, my policy excess was waived for any tow I accepted.
And insurance, my policy excess was waived for any tow I accepted.
Last edited:
Stemar
Well-Known Member
I'm exaggerating, but Jissel's only 24ft and no one would describe the cleats as oversize. When moored to a pontoon, I tend not to leave the sort of slack in the lines that would generate significant snatch loads; towing's an entirely different situation, where a 1 G acceleration isn't unlikely, so 2 or 3 tonnes of snatch load is probable even towing a small yacht. I'd far rather that sort of load was taken by a Samson post that's designed for anchoring loads, which are likely to be similar
Pete7
Well-Known Member
Towed an old couple on board a 30 ft yacht off Haslar sea wall when they became trapped by the large waves and quite strong wind. We could see they were in trouble 200 yards away but no one seemed to be helping them. As we approached in the rib stripped of nearly everything as it was about to be sold we could hear the yachts rudder and keel bouncing on the concrete ledge. With no time to loose we chucked the one rope we had on board, the old slipper made it fast to the bows whilst we tied it to the transom and we were off. It took very little power to pull the yacht off and into the wind and waves away from the danger. On reflection a yacht might have had problems getting in close and the line across but if you could I think another yacht wouldn't have had problems towing them off.
Last edited:
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
+Lots about snatch loads.
Many years ago, we wanted to jump start a diesel Land Rover (short base, so not all that heavy). We used a chain with a forged hook on the end as a tow rope - far stronger than most of the kit suggested here, but of course, zero elasticity. The towing vehicle went off with a bit of a jump, there was a loud bang and we found that the hook had straightened!
I have two midships cleats; if I had to offer a tow, I'd use a long nylon line between the two as a bridle, and a nylon rope as the tow rope. Fortunately I carry 4 long nylon mooring warps, a relic of our passage through the Caledonian Canal. One as a bridle and the others joined end to end should be an adequate setup, allowing a length of tow around 50 metres.
Many years ago, we wanted to jump start a diesel Land Rover (short base, so not all that heavy). We used a chain with a forged hook on the end as a tow rope - far stronger than most of the kit suggested here, but of course, zero elasticity. The towing vehicle went off with a bit of a jump, there was a loud bang and we found that the hook had straightened!
I have two midships cleats; if I had to offer a tow, I'd use a long nylon line between the two as a bridle, and a nylon rope as the tow rope. Fortunately I carry 4 long nylon mooring warps, a relic of our passage through the Caledonian Canal. One as a bridle and the others joined end to end should be an adequate setup, allowing a length of tow around 50 metres.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Many entertaining examples of shock loads doing unwanted things - frequently including rapid removal of major mechanical components - can be found with a quick YouTube search on "towing fail compilation". Those clips which don't involve disassembly almost all include destruction of caravans, so it's smiles and wins all round.
penberth3
Well-Known Member
No so entertaining when the flying end plus lump of metal hits someone on the head and kills them.
thinwater
Well-Known Member
Like anchoring threads, there seems to be a lot of interesting engineering here. Let's remember that you are NOT going to be towing with a sailboat in rough conditions, so we barely need to consider the effects of large waves.
G loads. 1-2 Gs? No way, probably less than 0.1 G at all times. 1-2 Gs would throw you off the boat like a missile. Not unless you are breaking waves or waves that can induce real surfing. If the latter is true, place a drogue off the towed boat to prevent this (an anchor under a fender should do in moderate conditions--more than that, you shouldn't be towing).
Forces in generally are not going to be that different from anchoring in an open rodestead. Yes, there will be waves, but if they are large and steep you will not have the power to do anything anyway. Clearly, we are off the map here. Your anchor rode should be ble to hold far beyond anything you can motor into. Thus, your anchor rode should be enough and the gear should all be built to match those loads. Remember, we are NOT talking about towing with a large power boat.
Strength. The cleats should be as strong as the line you are using. This is the basis for proper installation. If they are not backed or the laminate is thin, then they did not meet the standard of properly installed. One option is to make the bridle from rope they can safely handle.
Rope. I suggested at least 150 feet of nylon. You will find (try it) that it is hard to get a real snatch load unless you are not mananging your slack at all. The rope will stretch perhaps 20 feet under high load, still well below the WLL of the cleats. The assumption is that you will use a rope no larger than your anchor rope, which any mooring cleat should be able to hold.
Bridle. You will be spreading the load over 2 cleats. Additional safety factor.
---
Yes, you need to think about what you are doing. But break it down, rather than just assuming the loads must be "huge." Use your math.
G loads. 1-2 Gs? No way, probably less than 0.1 G at all times. 1-2 Gs would throw you off the boat like a missile. Not unless you are breaking waves or waves that can induce real surfing. If the latter is true, place a drogue off the towed boat to prevent this (an anchor under a fender should do in moderate conditions--more than that, you shouldn't be towing).
Forces in generally are not going to be that different from anchoring in an open rodestead. Yes, there will be waves, but if they are large and steep you will not have the power to do anything anyway. Clearly, we are off the map here. Your anchor rode should be ble to hold far beyond anything you can motor into. Thus, your anchor rode should be enough and the gear should all be built to match those loads. Remember, we are NOT talking about towing with a large power boat.
Strength. The cleats should be as strong as the line you are using. This is the basis for proper installation. If they are not backed or the laminate is thin, then they did not meet the standard of properly installed. One option is to make the bridle from rope they can safely handle.
Rope. I suggested at least 150 feet of nylon. You will find (try it) that it is hard to get a real snatch load unless you are not mananging your slack at all. The rope will stretch perhaps 20 feet under high load, still well below the WLL of the cleats. The assumption is that you will use a rope no larger than your anchor rope, which any mooring cleat should be able to hold.
Bridle. You will be spreading the load over 2 cleats. Additional safety factor.
---
Yes, you need to think about what you are doing. But break it down, rather than just assuming the loads must be "huge." Use your math.
fisherman
Well-Known Member
A coal mine engineer told me about chain and overload, he said when the chain is frozen out straight it's been overloaded.
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
lw395
Well-Known Member
Most of the fiascos I've seen with one boat towing another, it's a quick tow through the harbour entrance against the tide. When it's likely to be a matter of passing whatever rope is handy and using it as a tow line maybe a boat length or two long. Usually light winds or we'd all be sailing, so flat water.
Until the wash from some other boat catches you out.
As Thinwater metions, managing the slack helps, don't let the line go completely slack, and have some rope to ease as the wash hits.
We get towed to and from the racing area sometimes in boats weighing maybe a ton all up? We find a useful technique is to just take a turn around a cleat or post, then hold the rope by hand. Let it surge a few feet if you get hit by wash, pull in a few feet to avoid slack building up, try to maintain a fairly constant load. As well as not breaking things, it helps both boats steer.
Setting up for a long distance tow would be a different thing. As would any sort of max power emergency towing.
Until the wash from some other boat catches you out.
As Thinwater metions, managing the slack helps, don't let the line go completely slack, and have some rope to ease as the wash hits.
We get towed to and from the racing area sometimes in boats weighing maybe a ton all up? We find a useful technique is to just take a turn around a cleat or post, then hold the rope by hand. Let it surge a few feet if you get hit by wash, pull in a few feet to avoid slack building up, try to maintain a fairly constant load. As well as not breaking things, it helps both boats steer.
Setting up for a long distance tow would be a different thing. As would any sort of max power emergency towing.
thinwater
Well-Known Member
I've had some of these experiences too, just as he explains them. Th trickiest bits are always getting the boat out of trouble (off bar?) and getting into the harbor. I've found waiting for a lull in the traffic and tapping the horn periodically both help. So far as I know, sound signals are only used in fog, but if they help get the attention of weekend warriors, I'm OK with that. In truth, the exact signal hardly matters, since the boater won't know it (I hope most know port, starboard, backing, and warning).
(c) A vessel not under command, a vessel restricted in her ability to maneuver whether underway or at anchor [Inld], a vessel constrained by her draft [Intl], a sailing vessel, a vessel engaged in fishing whether underway or at anchor [Inld] and a vessel engaged in towing or pushing another vessel shall, instead of the signals prescribed in paragraph (a) or (b) of this Rule, sound at intervals of not more than 2 minutes three blasts in succession, namely one prolonged followed by two short blasts.
I've also found that towing the boat into her slip is beyond my skill set. I've always just taken them to anchor in a harbor. They can kedge or set up a dinghy hip tow from there. It's probably not hard, I've just never done it and would be concerned in a narrow fairway. The marina guys are good at it and will do it for free or a pittance.
