Selling in France

[NigelTopham]

Does anyone have experience of selling a pre-1996 yacht to a French buyer?

I have just lost a potential sale because the French buyer has been told by a representative of the French administration that a yacht imported today has to comply with the current European standards and directives, even if it was built before they were introduced in France in 1996. Needless to say, French owned yachts bult before this date can be bought and sold in France without complying with these regulations, including examples of the type of yacht that I am selling.

I would be interested in talking to anyone who has succeeded in getting around this administrative hurdle or has relevant useful information.

 

[Chris_Robb]

I would refer this to the RYA who are meant to be our conduit for matters of this nature. Sounds like they are choosing to interpret the Imported to Euroland rule from outside the EuroLand.

Might you not get a better price in the UK???

 

[Rowana]

Typical Fro***es !!

Make up & interpret rules to suit themselves! Still won't allow import of our beef in direct contravention of EU laws!

I was under the assumption (silly me) that all this EU nonsence was supposed to level the playing field, and allow free trade - Some bloddy hope!

BTW What are you selling ?

Jim

 

[Roberto]

I suspect one thing, please forgive me...
I have been looking at many used boats in the UK and in France, and *never* found any British market boat to be cheaper than the same model (standard description, allowance, etc etc) in French market, apart maybe from the odd used OVNI which is worth its weight in gold in France and may be more difficult to sell and cheaper in the UK, I suspect your buyer has found a lower priced deal in France and built up a bogus excuse.

I wanted to buy a pre-1996 foreign registered boat and register it under French flag (I live there), I enquired with Douanes and Affaires maritimes: if just one boat of that model has already been registered in France there is not even the need for a technical survey, the procedure is automatic since you state that the boat is identical (shipbuilder certificate); it may become lenghtier for one offs or other funny boats.

 

[Roberto]

Well, sometimes rules in the uk are not that different. I am eec citizen but not French: if I want to register my boat under French flag I can, but I cannot register it under UK flag (at least 6month "residency" in British territory + other clauses).

Is it because I could claim to be defended by the RN in case of an iraqi missile attack?

 

[NigelTopham]

Roberto,
Could you let me know who gave you the information that if just one boat of that model has already been registered in France then the procedure is automatic? So far all of the people that both I and the potential buyer have spoken to have referred to the part of the regulations known as Division 244 which states that if a second importer imports the same type of boat as another importer, the second importer cannot rely on the approvals given to the first importer; he has to obtain his own approval. The boat in question is an Iroquois, which were imported into France in the 1970's. I have spoken directly to the Affaires Maritimes as well as the Customs.
Nigel Topham
nigel.topham@poole.siemens.co.uk

 

[NigelTopham]

Selling an Iroquois

 

[Roberto]

I may have misunderstood: I thought you as an individual were selling your UK registered used boat to another individual in France, and your buyer wanted to change the boat registration from the UK to France, the boat goes through a private/private transaction without an importer, is this correct ?
In this case your buyer can ask one of the French importers a certificate of conformite (they usually ask a fee) and use that for the acte de franchisation/titre de navigation. The identical thing applies to used cars, you can buy a car abroad (portugal/italy being very frequent) then ask one of the official importers for the conformite paper, 100euro... I will check the source of the "automatic procedure" and come back asap (I investigated a lot and remember this very well).
If you sell your boat to an importer (company) then maybe rules are different and the buyer-importer cannot ask another importer for the certificate, which would be understandable in terms of commercial fairness.
Do I get it right?

 

[Roberto]

More info

http://www.finances.gouv.fr/douanes/C/f24121.htm

http://vosdroits.service-public.fr/ARBO/19090403-FXIMP323.html

where it asks for "certificat de conformite" or written statement of conformite from the seller.
The Douanes have an enormous list of boat models already imported in France.

 

[NigelTopham]

Yes I am an English individidual trying to sell my British registered Iroquois yacht to a French individual, who has to get it French registered, and who will not buy unless he can do so. Thanks for your information so far. Do you have the names and contact details of any importers who will supply the conformity papers? Iroquois were imported new into France in the 1970's so I am surprised at the difficulty that there is in order to import a second hand one.

 

[johnsomerhausen]

You might call French Customs and the Affaires Maritimes again and tell them you are submitting the matter to the European Commission as it looks like a restriction to trade within the EU. You might be surprised at how quickly they might find an accomodation....
john

 

[Gunfleet]

You could try that, but a simpler method would be to register the boat under a French flag (yes, I know you live in England, the same rules don't apply) then you can sell it in France as a French registered boat. That way Roberto's advice would kick in. I'm sure he's right. BTW I'm not sure who does the examination. When I did the same thing with a car it was the Service des Mines!

 

[NigelTopham]

Have consulted the RYA and on their advice submitted the case to Action Single Market (part of the D of T & I). Have also spoken to a senior person in Paris who confirms their position and believes that it is neither restrictive nor discriminatory.

 

[Roberto]

I heard of many French people having bought second hand foreign boats (Belgian, Danish, German and Italian) and no one ever reported any particular hassle. I wanted to buy a Spanish flagged Baltic (I dont even know if there is a french importer) and asked the douanes: the model had already been imported so the jauge was already defined, a statement from the boatbuilder would prove its conformity to the series. I did not actually go through all the process but the two most important pieces of paper were ok, as stated by the authority.
Also home built second hand foreign boat are bought, but then you must go through the technical control committee of affaires maritimes, which often is not that frightening.
From the way rules are stated by authorities and then applied in real life there is often some leeway, maybe Latin influence ?
You may find some first hand experience by asking at the fr.rec.bateaux newsgroup, or searching through the existing posts might put thing under a different light.