Selling boat - unusual offers

[Baggywrinkle]

Proceed with caution.

I'd reply and say that you are unhappy to sell the boat sight unseen, suggest he engages a local surveyor and you can then negotiate on the survey results. See how he replies. Try and get him on the phone .... then he has no time to prepare answers to your questions and is either a scammer winging it, or a genuine buyer who will easily provide sensible answers - you need to determine which.

The best way to detect a scammer is to keep talking to them without committing to any payments or giving any more information out than necessary for the sale, basically the same reason police always want to keep people talking - to uncover inconsistencies and evidence of crime, intent, motive etc. etc.

Ask questions like how he intends to pay and take delivery, where he will be keeping it, does he have a boat to sell, what is it, how long has he had it, what got him into boating etc. etc. etc....

 

[14K478]

I bought a boat in the South of England for £30k, a lot of money for me, without a survey, but I had seen her. No regrets.

 

[Adetheheat]

Thanks everyone. I'll be careful

 

[Bouba]

I also think that £30 k is borderline when it comes to getting a survey ....besides the reason for a survey is so that you can knock back the selling price....so the seller shouldn’t encourage one

 

[oldgit]

Have sold a boat unseen to a buyer in rather complicated boat P/X deal , never did meet the buyer.
...............and before even getting to the subject of how the funds will be made available ?
Buying or selling privately..... after any expression of interest get home address of the chap , refusal to supply would suggest caution.
A quick look on Google Earth Street map at that address, may well stop any further negociations instantly.

Still worried , to much faffing, put it in the hands of broker , at least you will see most of your money.

 

[DinghyMan]

If all money is transferred to your bank account, it can not be taken bank as far as I know in the uk. I do not know if the same is applicable to international payments.

I sold a vehicle for nearly £9k
Checked the transfer was complete, moved the money to another of my accounts and then handed over the vehicle some time later.

Summary: make sure you have the money, move it to another account, hand boat and docs over - am I missing something?

If they make a payment in full into your account my understanding is that it can not be reversed.
I would move the money away to another account for double safety.

It is then up to them to take the boat.

If storage fees apply, ensure paperwork transfer is in their name. If they fail to take boat, they accumulate fees.

Am I wrong in any of that?

Yes, as far as I am aware you are wrong

Money transferred into your UK account can be taken back up to 3 years after it is made in cases of fraud

Transferring it between accounts makes no difference, the bank will just follow the money trail and bill you for any difference

 

[Gsailor]

Yes, as far as I am aware you are wrong

Money transferred into your UK account can be taken back up to 3 years after it is made in cases of fraud

Transferring it between accounts makes no difference, the bank will just follow the money trail and bill you for any difference

I was thinking that money could not be taken back by a buyer; say a dodgy buyer paid the £30k into the account and then did not pick up the boat - there is no way he can get his money back. Is there?

If fraud is proven in court, I have no doubt one’s bank account will be ripped into.

 

[ghostlymoron2]

Ignore. Unless you feel like playing along and arm yourself properly (and e.g. feed him a bunch of useless details and see if he even detects your act). Ask how he plan to manage the EU import thing.

If he seems suspicious and his identity cannot be confirmed by any kind of internet search, he must be considered a crook until he provides proof of his existence and financial ability.

The EU import thing is a red herring as NI is part of the UK. As its fishy I'd reject the offer and wait for another.

 

[ghostlymoron2]

I also think that £30 k is borderline when it comes to getting a survey ....besides the reason for a survey is so that you can knock back the selling price....so the seller shouldn’t encourage one

I don't agree that the reason for a survey is to knock back the price. I've only had one survey and that was to satisfy me that there were no defects I hadn't spotted.

 

[penfold]

Perfect. tell him that you will engage with a broker to handle the sale and ask for his full contact details so that you can get your broker to contact him.

That's probably the best means of dealing with it; it will involve a fee but dealing via a broker may offer the OP peace of mind.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

The EU import thing is a red herring as NI is part of the UK. As its fishy I'd reject the offer and wait for another.

I'm not sure it's as simple as that. NI is in the EU single market. This document from UK government states that boats placed on the market in NI must meet the requirements of the RCD (in Annex 1)...

https://assets.publishing.service.g...dance-msc-regulation-article-4-businesses.pdf

Section 6.2 says this...

If you are selling products made by a manufacturer established outside NI or the EU (for example GB, or a non-EU country) and directly selling them to NI consumers, there must be a responsible economic operator established in NI or the EU to fulfil the compliance tasks of Article 4. (See section 2.4)

Now this is for manufacturers selling new stuff. Does it apply to private sellers selling used stuff? I don't know, and the document doesn't say*, but if I were to guess, I'd say that it does in the same way as selling a boat elsewhere into the single market, i.e. all of the EU and some other places. It will not be worthwhile making an old boat compliant because it must meet the requirements in force today, not when it was built. That often means a new engine for a start, and a holding tank if none fitted being the big ones.

It looks like B has made boat selling/buying tough for boats/sailors in NI. Can't sell to mainland UK because of mainland UK's RCR requirements. Can't buy from mainland UK because of NI's single market RCD requirements, and any sale or purchase to/from anywhere else in the EU will attract VAT because of a different customs area. I believe boats in the Channel Islands are in the same position.

That's all in theory anyway. I doubt there's much enforcement on used boat sales between mainland UK and NI.

* If anyone can find a UK government document describing the situation when selling used boats between mainland UK and NI I'd be interested to see it - and happy to be proven wrong.

 

[DinghyMan]

I was thinking that money could not be taken back by a buyer; say a dodgy buyer paid the £30k into the account and then did not pick up the boat - there is no way he can get his money back. Is there?

If fraud is proven in court, I have no doubt one’s bank account will be ripped into.

All he would have to do is say he paid it to the wrong person or account and he would get his money back

Don't have to wait for fraud to be proven in court, someone can make a claim of non-delivery, faulty goods, etc., to their bank and the bank will go through the chargeback / refund process

 

[Gsailor]

All he would have to do is say he paid it to the wrong person or account and he would get his money back

Don't have to wait for fraud to be proven in court, someone can make a claim of non-delivery, faulty goods, etc., to their bank and the bank will go through the chargeback / refund process

Have you any sources to support that please?

My understanding is that if you pay money into someone’s account by accident then there is no recourse; you have lost the money.

There was a newspaper article some time back where someone did exactly as described above, a large sum and the banks could do nothing about it and the recipient was not nice enough to give the money back to the elderly person who had made a mistake with account numbers.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Have you any sources to support that please?

My understanding is that if you pay money into someone’s account by accident then there is no recourse; you have list the money.

There was a newspaper article some time back where someone did exactly as described above, a large sum and the banks could do nothing about it and the recipient was not nice enough to give the money back to the elderly person who had made a mistake with account numbers.

There are circumstances, I think mainly connected with remittances from overseas sources, where the money can be credited to your account before the bank in fact receives it. Under those circumstances, the bank CAN reclaim the money. It's to do with there being different time limits on clearances, but I am unsure of the details.

 

[Gsailor]

There are circumstances, I think mainly connected with remittances from overseas sources, where the money can be credited to your account before the bank in fact receives it. Under those circumstances, the bank CAN reclaim the money. It's to do with there being different time limits on clearances, but I am unsure of the details.

That I can understand, but I don’t understand / believe DinghyMan’s post at #32.

 

[Koeketiene]

EU Import ? - Its Northern Ireland. Last I read - NI was still part of UK.

Posted before reading next posts !

NI is still part of the EU single market, so technically it's an EU import.

 

[AngusMcDoon]

NI is still part of the EU single market, so technically it's an EU import.

Single market - yes, so my (and your) understanding is the boat must meet the single market's current standards (RCD in this case).

However, NI is not part of the EU customs area, so I don't think any VAT would be payable. This makes it slightly different from an EU import from mainland UK to RoI for example.

 

[Koeketiene]

Single market - yes, so my (and your) understanding is the boat must meet the single market's current standards (RCD in this case).

However, NI is not part of the EU customs area, so I don't think any VAT would be payable. This makes it slightly different from an EU import from mainland UK to RoI for example.

Protocol on Ireland and Northern Ireland

 

[DinghyMan]

Have you any sources to support that please?

My understanding is that if you pay money into someone’s account by accident then there is no recourse; you have list the money.

There was a newspaper article some time back where someone did exactly as described above, a large sum and the banks could do nothing about it and the recipient was not nice enough to give the money back to the elderly person who had made a mistake with account numbers.

Visit you bank website and more than likely this exact question is in their FAQ's:

Keeping any money wrongly credited to your account could lead to you being charged with 'retaining wrongful credit' under the Theft Act 1968. see Can you keep money accidentally paid into your bank account? | money.co.uk

How do I get my money back if I've made a bank transfer to the wrong account? - Which?

Sent Money To Wrong Account | Recall Bank Transfer – HSBC UK

UK banks to reimburse fraud victims under new rules, regulator confirms

etc., etc...

Years ago we had a house sale proceeds bank cheque couriered from a solicitor to our bank and the bank paid it into the wrong account, we reported the issue and we got our money into our account almost immediately and we also got a duplicate amount a week or so later that also went into our same account, and was then removed again without us doing anything or agreeing to giving them the money back

In the above newspaper story the recipient could be charged with 'retaining wrongful credit' under the Theft Act 1968

It is quite difficult to actually take payments that are 100% guaranteed, the system works on trust

 

[Gsailor]

Visit you bank website and more than likely this exact question is in their FAQ's:

Keeping any money wrongly credited to your account could lead to you being charged with 'retaining wrongful credit' under the Theft Act 1968. see Can you keep money accidentally paid into your bank account? | money.co.uk

How do I get my money back if I've made a bank transfer to the wrong account? - Which?

Sent Money To Wrong Account | Recall Bank Transfer – HSBC UK

UK banks to reimburse fraud victims under new rules, regulator confirms

etc., etc...

Years ago we had a house sale proceeds bank cheque couriered from a solicitor to our bank and the bank paid it into the wrong account, we reported the issue and we got our money into our account almost immediately and we also got a duplicate amount a week or so later that also went into our same account, and was then removed again without us doing anything or agreeing to giving them the money back

In the above newspaper story the recipient could be charged with 'retaining wrongful credit' under the Theft Act 1968

It is quite difficult to actually take payments that are 100% guaranteed, the system works on trust

Thank you. I must not believe newspapers from now on.

Back to the OP then, if it were not for the NI complication, if a buyer paid in £30k, and emails had been sent back and forth requesting that amount for the sale of the boat, then all should be ok with the sale I would have thought and hoped.

But using a broker as others have suggested should provide a greater safety margin.