Sea trials when buying a boat

[Chris R]

Dear all
I have bought and sold one boat and am now planning to buy another
When buying, the agents have told me that there is no survey available to view and that if I want to test drive the boat I must pay for a sea trial since there are regs which prohibit them taking me out as they would if buying a car
When selling, the agents asked me to supply a copy of the current survey and told me I had to take the buyer out for a test drive.
So the questions are
1. dont all insurance companies require a current survey ( I thought they did)
2. Are the regs quoted real of just an excuse (my boat insurer advised that agents should have they own insurance)
Thanks for your help

 

[Biggles Wader]

When buying you are responsible for having a survey done and payng for it if you require one. Any previous survey may be a useful reference but the surveyer is only acting for who pays, no one else. As for a sea trial that is a matter for negotiation between buyer and seller. If that negotiation fails----walk away.

 

[Plum]

1. dont all insurance companies require a current survey ( I thought they did)

In my experience, no they don't. The last new policy I took, from Y Insure, they just wanted photographs of specified parts of the boat and the one before that, Saga, did not want anything, other than my money

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[Chris R]

When buying you are responsible for having a survey done and payng for it if you require one. Any previous survey may be a useful reference but the surveyer is only acting for who pays, no one else. As for a sea trial that is a matter for negotiation between buyer and seller. If that negotiation fails----walk away.

Thanks
I did not give the survey to the buyer but they were able to see it and then insured the boat with my insurers (Y insurance) who of course already had a copy
I felt a bit peeved but my mistake was giving out my insurer since they effectively go a free survey

 

[[159032]]

It's all about selling and buying. If sight of your survey secured the deal, so what? It got the boat sold.
Same a trials "Do you want to sell the boat?"

There is a plethora of "accepted practices" which get in the way of a sale.

I await the usual dire warnings about not "doing it properly".

 

[pvb]

The general sequence is that a sea trial only happens after an offer is accepted (subject of course to a satisfactory sea trial). This helps avoid the joyriders.

 

[thinwater]

The general sequence is that a sea trial only happens after an offer is accepted (subject of course to a satisfactory sea trial). This helps avoid the joyriders.

Exactly. You'll leave a deposit in escrow. Just make sure the contract is worded in such a way that if you do not like the boat for any reason, you can get your deposit back. The wording can be more subtle than that, but that must be the gist of it.

 

[Mudisox]

You commission and pay for a survey for all sorts of reasons, including for getting insurance cover with some firms. If you have paid for it it is yours to do whatever you like with it, and that includes improving the saleability of the boat. [It's your aim ]. Anyone who sees it doesn't "see it for free" it is part of your sale's pitch.

If I was thinking of buying, had seen it at least once, I would want to have a sea trial, especially if the boat was new type for me. If the owner doesn't want to show off his pride and joy, - what's wrong with it?

 

[Old Harry]

I have bought used 3 yachts, i have never had sea trials, never seen the need to, added to that, i had never sailed on the Class`s either.
I have had surveys ashore, BUT chose a reputable surveyor from a recommendation & make sure he doesnt complicate the issue with " should be done before launching" rather than " suggest during ongoing maintenance", for items that are not of an urgent nature.

 

[matt1]

2. Are the regs quoted real of just an excuse (my boat insurer advised that agents should have they own insurance)

I believe that to be correct. When I test sailed my boat last year (new boat sale) they were very apologetic that some new regs prevented us going any further south of Calshot or further North than Fawley! (If you aren't familiar with the area that's a radius of a couple of miles). So a bit tough if you want to stick the nose past Calshot into some more wind / waves! The dealer clearly thought it was bonkers. I don't know the rationale but it may be because there is no safety kit on a new boat?

 

[Zagato]

If you were buying an expensive boat or risky wood boat surveyors could be of use but for the boats I buy under 20k I did not bother... and when selling both surveyors have been useless, a waste of my time, the sellers time and money. One was so dis organised and late he had to return on the boat back to my mooring as I was on a time limit for lift out the other guy was an arrogant PITA Determined to push me about and and find fault with my Boat.... he couldn,t!!

If you have enough common sense and knowledge that the thing floats, the engine is ok, electrics, rigging etc then just buy It and avoid the £500 plus cost and hinderence of the the surveyor then do it. If you don,t and it is an expensive boat then try and find a good surveyor, not an arrogant jobs worth!

 

[johnalison]

I have bought used 3 yachts, i have never had sea trials, never seen the need to, added to that, i had never sailed on the Class`s either.
I have had surveys ashore, BUT chose a reputable surveyor from a recommendation & make sure he doesnt complicate the issue with " should be done before launching" rather than " suggest during ongoing maintenance", for items that are not of an urgent nature.

My four boats were all bought new. We had sea trials in two of them, but I don't think that I learned anything from them, apart from having a nice day out. With a second-hand boat there are certain issues such as whether the engine is in good condition, but this can be established without going to sea. Apart from one-off designs where handling is an unknown factor, I tend to think that a buyer needing a sea trial is probably betraying inexperience.

 

[srm]

Regarding surveyors - check out exactly what boat work experience they have other then "surveying". The last one I had done was by a prat using a computer pro forma and his qualification/society membership was probably from an online course.
The final report had a number of comments and descriptions from other boats that bore no resemblance to my boat. Just one example being that no halyards are led back to my cockpit, yet he saw all of them there and in good order!
Ideally, you want someone with extensive boat yard experience before becoming a "surveyor".

 

[RJJ]

We recently bought our boat with onshore survey plus seatrial. Our surveyor justified his fee three times over by identifying a delaminated rudder and lack of bonding of a springer in the forward cabin; the seller fixed both issues and I wouldn't have known how to spot them.

You are within your rights to ask for a seatrial. If the seller wants to sell it's down to him to make it possible. No "regs" about it. No particular need for the broker to be aboard either if they are not sufficiently insured.

I personally would insist on a seatrial again. How else do you know the engine actually works, nothing leaks, heads work, electronics work etc, winches actually function under load?

 

[Babylon]

My yacht isn't for sale, but if it was I would advertise it privately through the owner's association website plus one or more of the general sites pointing to my own website. If I then estimated a buyer to be serious, I'd have no problem taking them out for a day-sail. I'd show them everything I had including the most recent survey, which is now six years old since when even more work has been done to revamp and upgrade her - all of which is there to see. If they wanted their own fresh survey then they would be responsible without caveat for the full cost of haul-out etc.

 

[Rocksteadee]

My current boat the surveyed identified faults to the tune of £4500 to the seller, well worth his £500 bill.
the sea trial picked up a 500 rpm delay on accelerating between engines. Which cost the seller another couple of k.
6 sea trials in all of which I was there for 3.
The brokers boss tried to tell me that the delay was “normal“ then that there was nothing they could do about it as it was not a fault.
I told them sort it or I reject the boat .
A week later it was sorted, probably at more expense to seller.
So both survey and sea trial for me were worth it.
Dont forget that when buying the broker works for the seller and don’t use the brokers recommended surveyor

 

[iantomlinson]

Beware of surveyors who are going to do survey on a boat they might know. ALWAYS hire a surveyor from out of the area.
We had a survey done on a boat in conwy 5 years ago from a local,well known surveyor. Turns out he had done one years before on the same boat and was 'probably' well connected with the owner(high up MD in North Wales). Our survey missed some mega-important structural problems(convenient), which I have had to fix myself. I have no comeback obviously, but the 'misses' could easily have bought the whole rig down, sunk the boat, etc, etc.
Best advice-- keep an eye on what he does, then spend a couple of hours doing it yourself.
Sea Trials-- Have a clause in the contract or agree to keep £xxxx to one side for major overseen problems until proven over xxx time.

Anybody who has confidence they are selling a good boat would agree or even suggest it.

Honesty wins but any sign of hesitancy makes people run.

 

[michael_w]

I would have a sea trial if the boat I was buying had been laid up for ages, if only to see if the engine had seized. If selling, always disclose any faults. Then the purchaser can't beat you down on price when the said faults are raised in the survey,

 

[duncan99210]

When selling a boat, I have no problem taking a prospective buyer out for a sail. I wouldn’t do it if they appeared and asked me straight out to take them out but I would be more than happy if repeat visits showed a reasonable degree of interest in the boat. However, that to my mind is not a “sea trial” which forms a later, formal part of the purchase process.
The sea trail proper isn’t for a buyer to decide if he likes the boat enough to buy: it’s purpose is to confirm the boat systems work properly at sea after someone has already committed to buy the boat. For preference, it should take place after the survey has revealed any faults which needed correction so the buyer can assess the efficacy of those repairs.
As to brokers wriggling about taking you out in a boat, it does ring alarm bells with me. I was once in the process of buying a boat, asked to be taken out in her and was refused because the broker “didn’t have insurance”. I got the boat surveyed and found a number of faults including with the gas system: I asked that either they be rectified or the price reduced. The seller refused, so in conjunction with the refusal to take me out in the boat, I walked away. It seemed to me that there was something dodgy with the boat and the sale process. That contrasted significantly with the other boats I’ve bought where brokers and sellers were happy to arrange access and short trips out as part of the sales effort.

 

[Chris R]

It's all about selling and buying. If sight of your survey secured the deal, so what? It got the boat sold.
Same a trials "Do you want to sell the boat?"

There is a plethora of "accepted practices" which get in the way of a sale.

I await the usual dire warnings about not "doing it properly".

Yes thanks I know all that
what I was after was view on what’s accepted or legal practice