Sea toilet hose: fitting

[Geoff Wode]

Hi,

The pump unit on my jabsco sea toilet has failed. A replacement unit at £70 seems the way forward. While replacing this I think I’ll replace the hoses, too.

What’s the proper way to make the connections?
Warm the hose? 2 jubilee clips? Any sealant?

Any advice appreciated.

 

[jwfrary]

Use the rubber lined hose, worth the extra over the white plastic stuff. Lasts longer easier to pull into place and more resistant to pongs!

I use a single milkalor hose 316 exhaust hose clamp no leaks and secures evenly.

Otherwise warming the plastic hose helps get it on two new jubilee clips opposing one another is good, ASAP supplies sell little rubber bits to go one the end of the clamp which is good when your cleaning and you catch yourself on it!

 

[Dunx]

I have always used a heat gun (in winter) if needed and two jubilee clips on the pump outlet. I have used both standard ‘chandlery hose’ and the heavier butyl hoses. I prefer the latter as it’s stronger but it does cost more

 

[Plum]

Hi,

The pump unit on my jabsco sea toilet has failed. A replacement unit at £70 seems the way forward. While replacing this I think I’ll replace the hoses, too.

What’s the proper way to make the connections?
Warm the hose? 2 jubilee clips? Any sealant?

Any advice appreciated.

I always use standard chandlery pvc spirol hose, no sealant, one good quality hose clamp. Dip end of hose in near-boiling water just before fitting.

Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

 

[lustyd]

Use a heat gun until the end of the pipe is flexible. This will take slightly longer than you think to get up to temp but the hose will remain flexible for longer than you expect so don’t panic if you need time to manoeuvre. I put a little soapy water on the fittings to help it slide on.
Two jubilee clips if you want insurers and surveyors to approve, and these should be opposing directions.
When doing this job it’s (in my opinion) easier to measure and cut then fit the vented loop first before putting the whole lot into place. I then installed at the heads end before finally dealing with the seacock end. Each boat will be different but the vented loop will take the least force so is better done in the open where you can push it into the pipe. Heads and seacock can be pushed against hard so not a problem.

 

[Daydream believer]

I have always used a heat gun (in winter) if needed and two jubilee clips on the pump outlet. I have used both standard ‘chandlery hose’ and the heavier butyl hoses. I prefer the latter as it’s stronger but it does cost more

Certainly better to use the buyl hose. The spiral wire stuff goes hard over time & if you have to run it through a couple of holes & through any ducting it becomes a devil of a job to service it i.e. to remove excessive calcium build up etc.
One tip is just to boil some water & soak a tea towel, or similar rag, in the boiling water & wrap it around the pipe. Keep pouring the boiling water onto the rag. This makes a pipe easier to remove as the heat works its way around the pipe.

 

[Geoff Wode]

Thanks All.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Use a heat gun until the end of the pipe is flexible. This will take slightly longer than you think to get up to temp but the hose will remain flexible for longer than you expect so don’t panic if you need time to manoeuvre. I put a little soapy water on the fittings to help it slide on.
Two jubilee clips if you want insurers and surveyors to approve, and these should be opposing directions.
When doing this job it’s (in my opinion) easier to measure and cut then fit the vented loop first before putting the whole lot into place. I then installed at the heads end before finally dealing with the seacock end. Each boat will be different but the vented loop will take the least force so is better done in the open where you can push it into the pipe. Heads and seacock can be pushed against hard so not a problem.

Bearing in mind that the jubilee clip is what separates your pride and joy from Davy Jones’s locker, a second one is required by me before I put to sea, bugger the surveyor!

 

[ChromeDome]

I'm happy with the non permeable hose made for the purpose. Not the cheapest but a sh!it load better..

 

[Tranona]

Bearing in mind that the jubilee clip is what separates your pride and joy from Davy Jones’s locker, a second one is required by me before I put to sea, bugger the surveyor!

Can you point to any evidence that clips actually fail in this application? or any boats that have been lost as a consequence? Do you really think that after all these decades of manufacture of worm drive clips manufacturers make unreliable products?

Just saying

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Can you point to any evidence that clips actually fail in this application? or any boats that have been lost as a consequence? Do you really think that after all these decades of manufacture of worm drive clips manufacturers make unreliable products?

Just saying

And do you know they haven’t? Just saying.

 

[Biggles Wader]

No room for complacency when it comes to holes in the bottom IMO. Especially when there is no need for complacency either. Just saying.

 

[Tranona]

And do you know they haven’t? Just saying.

Well, I have searched a lot over the years looking for any research or trials on failure of worm drive clips and not found any but just wondered as you are so certain 2 are necessary you might have found something.

One thing I have found (as have most people) is that the biggest difficulty is removing clips and hoses from the spigots rather than keeping them on.

I also wonder why manufacturers have not advertised along the lines of "Our clips are so unreliable you need 2. Buy one and get your second half price"

 

[Tranona]

No room for complacency when it comes to holes in the bottom IMO. Especially when there is no need for complacency either. Just saying.

Why is it complacent to clip your hose with what seems to be (on the evidence) a 100% reliable method of clipping? Unless of course you have evidence that they are not reliable.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Why is it complacent to clip your hose with what seems to be (on the evidence) a 100% reliable method of clipping? Unless of course you have evidence that they are not reliable.

Well, like they say, surveyors and insurers like to see 2. And just how much do you want to stake on just one? I’ve recently put a holding tank in, and changed all my hoses. Double clipped at every junction, just as they were from the factory. As to evidence of failure, you’d be looking at unexplained sinkings, surely. So the evidence, were it to exist, would be hard to find. I’d simply rather not take any kind of chance to save a fiver, and 5 minutes of time.

 

[penfold]

Use the rubber lined hose, worth the extra over the white plastic stuff. Lasts longer easier to pull into place and more resistant to pongs!

I use a single mikalor hose 316 exhaust hose clamp no leaks and secures evenly.

Otherwise warming the plastic hose helps get it on two new jubilee clips opposing one another is good, ASAP supplies sell little rubber bits to go one the end of the clamp which is good when your cleaning and you catch yourself on it!

I like those too, and no fumbling around with screwdrivers either.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I like those too, and no fumbling around with screwdrivers either.

My jubilee clips have 8mm heads as well as screwdriver slots. Using a screwdriver on them would be asking to stab yourself in the hand, they’re as hard to get to as you might suppose, on a very compact boat.

 

[Tranona]

Well, like they say, surveyors and insurers like to see 2. And just how much do you want to stake on just one? I’ve recently put a holding tank in, and changed all my hoses. Double clipped at every junction, just as they were from the factory. As to evidence of failure, you’d be looking at unexplained sinkings, surely. So the evidence, were it to exist, would be hard to find. I’d simply rather not take any kind of chance to save a fiver, and 5 minutes of time.

The clip does not hold the hose on. This thread is about the difficulty of getting the hose on, which is solved by heating it so that the internal bore is enlarged to go over the spigot. As it cools it shrinks and seals itself around the spigot. 10 years later when you come to replace it you will almost certainly have to cut it off the spigot. The clip is there to seal the hose against the spigot so that it does not leak.

The origins of double clipping go back 60 years or more when flexible hoses came in which were nothing like modern hoses and worm drive clips that were nowhere as good as the ones we have now (and rarely made of 316 stainless). Not surprisingly people were sceptical about this arrangement and the mantra of double clipping came in - and still persists today - despite it being completely unnecessary. It persists because there is no R&D to test out new materials and processes unlike in other areas where securing hoses to spigoted tubes is common and critical. Look at marine engines. Nowhere is there double clipping even on pressurized coolant systems. Look under the bonnet of an ICE vehicle and nowhere will you see double clipping, or in many cases even clips as secure as worm drive made in stainless.

Advances come from challenging the status quo and this is an example of the lack of challenge resulting in a practice that no longer relevant. The idea that you should double clip all the hoses on your holding tank is just nonsense. As to evidence the number of unexplained sinkings is tiny and almost certainly none have been caused by a failure to double clip hoses. As to insurers they have no idea whether it is needed or not - I doubt they have ever had a claim resulting from failure because of lack of doubling clipping. They just rely on what surveyors say, and the origin of their "opinion" is exactly as I described above.

One would like to think that manufacturers have tested their clips and ensured that they do not fail, but I guess they are unwilling to share their findings as it would immediately half their sales in this sector of the market.

 

[LittleSister]

The pukka butyl sanitation hose* is significantly more expensive than the basic PVC stuff, but definitely worth it, in my view, not least because it's easy to push onto even a 1 1/2"/38mm hose barb without heating. Excellent stuff.

I've even used it for cockpit drain hoses because of that valuable characteristic, the fittings were difficult to reach, and I likely wouldn't have the strength at arms length and an awkward angle to get cheaper hose onto the barbs.

I believe it'll likely also last longer last longer than PVC before the pong eventually permeates the hose material.

Note that it's thicker (i.e. greater external diameter) than cheap PVC hose, so you may need to enlarge any holes in bulkheads etc. it passes through. It also won't make such a tight bend as thinner PVC hose.

(* e.g. Seaflow Marine Butyl Rubber Sanitation Hose (19mm ID) other suppliers/manufacturers available.)

 

[ChromeDome]

Regardless of the number of clips you fit, be aware that there are different designs and finishes (band thickness, cut-through vs. solid, rounded edges, material etc.).