Scorpion Vs Albacore?

[SELondoner]

So this is my third late night in a row doing research and perhaps someone can tell me if they think I'm on the right track.

I'm 42, 6'1". 14.5st, have sailed since I was 9 have sailed everything from Hobie cats
to keelboats, plus a lot of stuff like 420s, 470s and Larks in my youth.
I¹ve also had long gaps. However, most of my recent sailing has been done
down in Cornwall on a 1950s clinker. Now I have a yen for something faster.

I'm now looking for a very flexible boat to do the following:

Flexibility - I will be SOMETIMES sailing with another man of similar size, but would also like to take my kids out (with
a reef if necessary) and maybe even persuade my wife who i would guess is
about 8st.

Stability - I'm happy to get dunked, but I'd like some control over that too if sailing with youngsters, for
example. So the possibility to just have a more gentle pleasure sail, perhaps stow some lunch and towels up for'ard, and
avoid capsizing by holding back a bit is good

Single-handed - is this feasible? Similarly, is it feasible to launch and retrieve the boat solo? That would rule out an Osprey, for example.

Environment - Is it feasible to sail upriver as well as estuary and open ocean? The place I sail in Cornwall offers all of that

At the end of all this, I seem to have landed on either an Albacore or a Scorpion: both about the same PN; Albacore much more commonl; neither has a trapeze, which is a bit of a shame as they're fun; both kind of blur the line between performance but also general purpose boats

Am I on the right track? What are others opinions and what have I forgotten?

And yes, I'm aware no boat will do everyone perfectly. I'm just wondering what some do well.

 

[rwoofer]

Well I'm 47, 6'6", 15.5st and own an Albacore. I sail it singlehanded, I sail with my with wife, tonight I'm racing at my club with my crew weighing 17.5st and finally I sail it with my whole family including 3x 6 year olds. Actually I did last year's Bart's Bash with SWMBO and 3 kids as crew. For large helms (in dinghy terms) I couldn't find a better alternative myself. It is a nice boat to race, much lighter/faster than a Wayfarer and still a good allrounder.

 

[TSB240]

I used to own race and cruise a Scorpion one man, two man, man and wife, man and child, en famille with a squeeze....

The late boats use a raking rig which enables all crew weights to enjoy a very high performance dinghy.

It is one of the best two man non trapeze symmetric spinnaker dinghies around.

It is significantly lighter than an Albacore and certainly off wind with the kite leaves them dead in the water.

I have enjoyed success in open offshore dinghy racing to the extent that at the end of a 3 hour race we finished amongst the 505's and won overal by a considerable margin.

They are a challenge to sail well against their new handicap which used to be the same as the Albacore many years ago.
The change in handicap reflects keen racers campaining them in well known Open events and the gradual development of the class in using new tech sails and exploiting the hull shape to the maximum within the tolerances.

Far prettier boat than the tubby Albie!


I have also enjoyed sailing with and in Albacores including an ex world champion competitor.

IMHO They would make a better cruising boat but a far less of a challenge to the all round racer!

Are ugly!

Did I say they were Ugly!

Oh and yes they are Fugly!

They make a very good pond boat where the race officer cant set a fair course !

 

[TSB240]

What isnt lighter and faster than a Wayfarer!

 

[DFL1010]

A tectonic plate? Although it's debatable.

 

[SELondoner]

dear all, many thanks for the replies. It seems my research is confirmed - that these are both fun to sail and suitable to a variety of crews. I'm just going to have to try them both, which i'm currently organising. A lighter boat is certainly attractive in terms of launching. I would have thought the hard chines of the Scorpion should make it more stable in the water

 

[SELondoner]

incidentally, the 2016 PN of the Scorpion is 1040 and of the Albacore is 1045

 

[rwoofer]

I used to own race and cruise a Scorpion one man, two man, man and wife, man and child, en famille with a squeeze....

The late boats use a raking rig which enables all crew weights to enjoy a very high performance dinghy.

It is one of the best two man non trapeze symmetric spinnaker dinghies around.

It is significantly lighter than an Albacore and certainly off wind with the kite leaves them dead in the water.

I have enjoyed success in open offshore dinghy racing to the extent that at the end of a 3 hour race we finished amongst the 505's and won overal by a considerable margin.

They are a challenge to sail well against their new handicap which used to be the same as the Albacore many years ago.
The change in handicap reflects keen racers campaining them in well known Open events and the gradual development of the class in using new tech sails and exploiting the hull shape to the maximum within the tolerances.

Far prettier boat than the tubby Albie!


I have also enjoyed sailing with and in Albacores including an ex world champion competitor.

IMHO They would make a better cruising boat but a far less of a challenge to the all round racer!

Are ugly!

Did I say they were Ugly!

Oh and yes they are Fugly!

They make a very good pond boat where the race officer cant set a fair course !

Given the Albacore has no spinnaker and rates at 1045 compared to 1040 for the scorpion with a spinnaker (basically the same), that suggests the Albacore is the faster boat except for when spinnakers are up.

Surprised you don't like the look cause most people feel the opposite.

 

[EuanMcKenzie]

If you want a GRP equivalent also consider a Kestrel. Very similar to an Albacore but with a kite etc and plenty room for the picnic etc

 

[PeteCooper]

You could consider a Swordfish - very similar to an Alb(same designer etc) but with a kite.

 

[TSB240]

dear all, many thanks for the replies. It seems my research is confirmed - that these are both fun to sail and suitable to a variety of crews. I'm just going to have to try them both, which i'm currently organising. A lighter boat is certainly attractive in terms of launching. I would have thought the hard chines of the Scorpion should make it more stable in the water

My crew and I could launch our Scorpion(81kgs) by carrying her one either side on the balance holding the gunwhales. Came in handy when the wheeled trolley didnt like soft sand or the pebble beach was too difficult.

I wouldn't like to try that with an albatross(109kgs)!

 

[[3889]]

Sorry to dissent from the appreciation of antiques but wouldn't something like an RS400 meet your needs, with all the modernish technology it brings to the mix?

 

[SELondoner]

Sorry to dissent from the appreciation of antiques but wouldn't something like an RS400 meet your needs, with all the modernish technology it brings to the mix?

good suggestion, but a) they're a bit expensive for me, and b) I like antiques, especially wooden ones.

 

[SELondoner]

You could consider a Swordfish - very similar to an Alb(same designer etc) but with a kite.

seem to be very thin on the ground. Albacore has the advantage of having a few fleets around, Scorpion less so but still fairly numerous

 

[[3889]]

good suggestion, but a) they're a bit expensive

Yikes, aren't they just! 10k for a 2 year old boat. I didn't realise how out of touch I am with dinghy prices.

 

[david 76]

Hi, unbelievably I am trying to decide between a Scorpion or an Albacore, both wooden hulls, leaning toward scorpion, used to mess around in Larks and 420's a lot, 6'1 want to teach the kids, maybe race a bit. What did you decide?

 

[TSB240]

I am totally biased as an ex owner of a Scorpion.
Wonderful memories of a friendly class that welcomes all abilities to a holiday atmospheric national championships.
A bonus is a down to weight boat can be easily lifted and carried by two people. In the right hands will outperform a cold moulded bath tub by a big margin.?.

 

[wombat88]

Old Merlins are cheap, grp ones even cheaper and they can be a lot of fun...

 

[chrishscorp]

Also a former Scorpion sailor, a lot of fun and a quick boat especially under spinnaker.
You could reef the boat if you set it up for that, Watch the all up crew weight for the Scorp you have several combinations there. Definitely need to hike out, my wife was not keen on that till a capsize reminded her then once back in she was fine LOL. The association is very lively and the nationals are always good fun, though sadly we never managed to get there.

 

[ProMariner]

14st seems a bit big for a Scorpion, have you given any thought to it's big sister the Hornet? Sure you could get a jib instead of the standard Genoa for ease of use if you're sailing with little people, and the trapeze does add a bit of fun for the crew. Or indeed a Fireball? Both can be singlehanded from the trapeze with a longer extension.